Buying new turbo for rallying

[Gabriel~]

So I just picked up a FMIC and decided to upgrade my turbo (05 STI VF39) and was wondering what you guys recommend over the stock turbo to upgrade too. The leading contendor right now is a Deadbolt Zilla TD06H 20G Turbo Upgrade which I could buy new or have them turn my VF39 into a 20G turbo. I am also considering a Forced Performance "Green" Turbo.
Thoughts anyone :waving:

[Jard]

For real rally or for rallycross?

I think I would be way to worried about damage to run a FMIC in stage rally. Tap into something, and your race is over.

[Gabriel~]

For real rally or for rallycross?

I think I would be way to worried about damage to run a FMIC in stage rally. Tap into something, and your race is over.

real rally, all out!

[UP2MTNS]

real rally, all out!

then don't forget the 34mm restrictor.

no bigger than 20g....w/td-05 hotside because topend is useless with the restrictor.

twinscroll....

[Gabriel~]

then don't forget the 34mm restrictor.

no bigger than 20g....w/td-05 hotside because topend is useless with the restrictor.

twinscroll....

I'm sorry but I didn't understand that. What 34 mm restrictor and how is topend useless with the restrictor

twinscroll... yes I know what this is but can you elaborate?

[subyspawn]

depends on what class you will run in...

i think currently the PGT class is 32mm restrictor and Open is 34mm

restrictor kills your HP...i have 34mm on mine and only have 230whp in 05 STi

[Gabriel~]

depends on what class you will run in...

i think currently the PGT class is 32mm restrictor and Open is 34mm

restrictor kills your HP...i have 34mm on mine and only have 230whp in 05 STi

what is this restrictor you guys are talking about? What are the advantages/disadvantages of going PGT or open?

[I Like It Sideways]

Actually, start in 2wd. You almost have to, per the rules of Rally-America, unless you know someone who knows someone who can pull strings for you or sign a waiver.
I would highly suggest reading the Rally-America rule book (http://www.rally-america.com/info/2008_Rules.pdf).
It outlines each class, as well as what is required to run a stage rally with them.
Also, check out all the bulletins posted for 2008 here (http://www.rally-america.com/rules.php)

NASA is a bit more lenient, and you can start in AWD without a problem.
A lot of teams will start in NASA to save on money and earn coefficients.

The restrictor is what physically restricts airflow to the turbo. It is a 32mm/34mm opening to the turbo inlet.

http://www.zoto.com/ilikeitsideways/img/600x600x0/9e572a43e1a6ae6e7b436dac863dfe3e.jpg

[Gabriel~]

Actually, start in 2wd. You almost have to, per the rules of Rally-America, unless you know someone who knows someone who can pull strings for you or sign a waiver.
I would highly suggest reading the Rally-America rule book (http://www.rally-america.com/info/2008_Rules.pdf).
It outlines each class, as well as what is required to run a stage rally with them.
Also, check out all the bulletins posted for 2008 here (http://www.rally-america.com/rules.php)

NASA is a bit more lenient, and you can start in AWD without a problem.
A lot of teams will start in NASA to save on money and earn coefficients.

The restrictor is what physically restricts airflow to the turbo. It is a 32mm/34mm opening to the turbo inlet.

http://www.zoto.com/ilikeitsideways/img/600x600x0/9e572a43e1a6ae6e7b436dac863dfe3e.jpg

I can't see my car at the moment since it's parked in our lots but what is the restrictor like on a stock 05 sti? Is this 32/34mm something I need to upgrade or mod to?

[Rally OBXT]

Before you do ANYTHING to your car please do youself a favor and know ALL the rules to the class and series you will be racing in.

[I Like It Sideways]

The picture is actually rotated. But your layout is the same. This restrictor is a downgrade of sorts, but gobs of torque can be had!

And +1 on what Rally OBXT said. Read the rule book before you do anything at all. That will save tons of headaches now, later and even later(er) on haha.

[Draco-REX]

I can't see my car at the moment since it's parked in our lots but what is the restrictor like on a stock 05 sti? Is this 32/34mm something I need to upgrade or mod to?
To be frank.. If you have to ask this question, I wouldn't recommend building a car for stage rally. (You do realize you'll have to gut your car, install a full cage, have it inspected, and then have all the proper safetey equipemnt installed as well?)

I would recommend just doing RallyCross for now. You don't have to modify your car, and you'll get seat time on dirt while you plan out your step to stage rally fully.

If anything, when you do go stage rally, it might be a good idea to buy someone's old stage-prepped car first and then build your own when you can secure sponsors.

But give RallyCross a shot. It's a LOT less expensive and a hell of a lot of fun. :)

[Gabriel~]

To be frank.. If you have to ask this question, I wouldn't recommend building a car for stage rally. (You do realize you'll have to gut your car, install a full cage, have it inspected, and then have all the proper safetey equipemnt installed as well?)

I would recommend just doing RallyCross for now. You don't have to modify your car, and you'll get seat time on dirt while you plan out your step to stage rally fully.

If anything, when you do go stage rally, it might be a good idea to buy someone's old stage-prepped car first and then build your own when you can secure sponsors.

But give RallyCross a shot. It's a LOT less expensive and a hell of a lot of fun. :)

reading the rules about stage rally it's a lot more than I thought. I may self-wrnech now in rally x and enjoy it without the enormous amount of money and work needed for stage. I'm still learning about all of this so thanks for being blunt, I have thick skin. However, staying on topics, regardless of the type of rally, I'm still in need upgrading my turbo and need some help in chosing wisely and economically!

[Rally OBXT]

Its a good choice to rally-x for a season or two before you try and jump to stage rally.

As for your turbo upgrade, I know it's a sexy mod and making more power is always fun, but your STI in stock form has plenty enough power for rally-x (or stage rally for that matter) I would stick with the stock VF39 for now and use that money towards getting more seat time.

If you HAVE to upgrade, don't get anything bigger than a 20G. Quick spool up for rally-x, stage rally, auto-x and small road courses is your friend. If you have money to burn, you could do a twinscroll upgrade. Another good option for quicker spool is to go with an external wastegate. Grimspeed sells a nice up pipe that you could use (support our vendors :))

[Draco-REX]

reading the rules about stage rally it's a lot more than I thought. I may self-wrnech now in rally x and enjoy it without the enormous amount of money and work needed for stage. I'm still learning about all of this so thanks for being blunt, I have thick skin. However, staying on topics, regardless of the type of rally, I'm still in need upgrading my turbo and need some help in chosing wisely and economically!

Its a good choice to rally-x for a season or two before you try and jump to stage rally.

As for your turbo upgrade, I know it's a sexy mod and making more power is always fun, but your STI in stock form has plenty enough power for rally-x (or stage rally for that matter) I would stick with the stock VF39 for now and use that money towards getting more seat time.

If you HAVE to upgrade, don't get anything bigger than a 20G. Quick spool up for rally-x, stage rally, auto-x and small road courses is your friend. If you have money to burn, you could do a twinscroll upgrade. Another good option for quicker spool is to go with an external wastegate. Grimspeed sells a nice up pipe that you could use (support our vendors :))
+1. For rally/solo you want to focus on spool rather than power. The stock single scroll is good. You can also look into the JDM twin-scroll versions.

[Gabriel~]

Its a good choice to rally-x for a season or two before you try and jump to stage rally.

As for your turbo upgrade, I know it's a sexy mod and making more power is always fun, but your STI in stock form has plenty enough power for rally-x (or stage rally for that matter) I would stick with the stock VF39 for now and use that money towards getting more seat time.

If you HAVE to upgrade, don't get anything bigger than a 20G. Quick spool up for rally-x, stage rally, auto-x and small road courses is your friend. If you have money to burn, you could do a twinscroll upgrade. Another good option for quicker spool is to go with an external wastegate. Grimspeed sells a nice up pipe that you could use (support our vendors :))

Ok, I looked around at external wastegates. #1, they are not street legal so if I run one will a cop notice this and give me a ticket? #2, damn they are loud, combining this with my HKS TBE and or straightpipe for rallying, will the noice be too loud or annoying? Also for my DD, will this just be overkill? #3, what is the Subaru Rally Team running on their WRC cars? I youtubed some vid's of wastgates and subaru testing a WRC, see link below, are they running an external wastegate? Anyway to reduce some of the noise caused or is that part of the beast?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFav5BPpv0U&feature=related

[pigpen]

are you upgrading because you need to replace your turbo? or do you just have some money that you wanted to put towards making your car faster? if it is the latter, you might want to think about doing a rally school with that money, and hold off on the mods until you've at least tried rallycross. the more you do the types of events you want to prep for, the more you should be able to figure out about what you really want to spend your money on.

[aresbykes]

my buddy is running a sti with a rotated turbo ( pretty sure thats illegal in michigan) and a external waste gate on a full 3'' pipe all the way out. It's loud but most of the time you wont be driving down sidestreets at WOT(unless you are in a school zone.) If a cop pulls you over and wants to see under your hood, chances are he wont know what the hell a wastegate is, or even a rotated turbo setup, he'll just see a bunch of stuff that isn't a V8 and ask where your cats are if anything. Maybe you should look into a better exhaust setup, larger DP, and external wastegate before you start throwing out turbos. You'll find that you've got more than enough under the hood you just gotta let it sing :D

[Rally OBXT]

Gabriel, just slow down a bit there fella. Don't even worry about what WRC cars have or what Team Subaru USA is doing. If you have to ask all the questions you are asking, it means you are NOT ready to start modding for rally.

Leave your car stock and use your money to become a better driver. Do this and you will be 100% better off in the end.

Just so you know, I run a 2000 2.5RS with 165,000 miles and it is stock. The car new came with 160HP, I am sure I am down to 145HP or so now. At rally-x events I kick the $hit out of STI's and WRX's all day long. Do I have more power?? Hell no!! I am a better driver than most and I am able to go faster as a result.

So you gotta ask yourself something. Do you want to be a fast driver? or do you want a fast car?

[UP2MTNS]

to be honest, and based on my personal experience, a 20g isn't the best 'rallyX' turbo. I'd go a little smaller....it generates a lot of heat, and since rallyX's aren't fast courses, most of that heat stays in the engine bay and turns your intercooler into a furnace.

I'd go big/ported 16g...ah, wait, you already have an STI....dude, unless something is broke, don't mess with it.


and yes, you're asking a lot of good 'newbie' questions...but based on those questions...please trust us....slowwwww down. ;)

[Gabriel~]

Gabriel, just slow down a bit there fella. Don't even worry about what WRC cars have or what Team Subaru USA is doing. If you have to ask all the questions you are asking, it means you are NOT ready to start modding for rally.

Leave your car stock and use your money to become a better driver. Do this and you will be 100% better off in the end.

Just so you know, I run a 2000 2.5RS with 165,000 miles and it is stock. The car new came with 160HP, I am sure I am down to 145HP or so now. At rally-x events I kick the $hit out of STI's and WRX's all day long. Do I have more power?? Hell no!! I am a better driver than most and I am able to go faster as a result.

So you gotta ask yourself something. Do you want to be a fast driver? or do you want a fast car?

I want to be a faster driver optimally. Later can come the car but I see the points you guys are making.

are you upgrading because you need to replace your turbo? or do you just have some money that you wanted to put towards making your car faster? if it is the latter, you might want to think about doing a rally school with that money, and hold off on the mods until you've at least tried rallycross. the more you do the types of events you want to prep for, the more you should be able to figure out about what you really want to spend your money on.
I'm gonna start looking around NY for some rally schools to attend now that you mentioned it. if anyone knows of any in the area let me know. On a side note, I am scheduled to do my first rally on Nov 22 down at the Pine Barrens in NJ.

[MConte05]

I would suggest that you don't go down to the Pine Barrens in NJ unless you guys have found another spot (legal) different from where we all went a couple months ago....

[Gabriel~]

I would suggest that you don't go down to the Pine Barrens in NJ unless you guys have found another spot (legal) different from where we all went a couple months ago....

where'd you go a couple of months ago? The rally is the Pine Barrnes Express, www.rvscc.com (http://www.rvscc.com).

[Jard]

where'd you go a couple of months ago? The rally is the Pine Barrnes Express, www.rvscc.com (http://www.rvscc.com).
TSD Rally is fun!

...but you don't need a prepped car or big power to have fun doing it...

[MConte05]

Oh cool, I didn't know they actually held a TSD out there. I had been wanting to do one. If you look in the Mid-Atlantic thread you can see where a bunch of us went out to go play in a field we thought was legal, turns out it wasn't and got threatened by Park Rangers to never come again. Was good fun.

[pigpen]

I'm gonna start looking around NY for some rally schools to attend now that you mentioned it. if anyone knows of any in the area let me know. On a side note, I am scheduled to do my first rally on Nov 22 down at the Pine Barrens in NJ.

the big one in the northeast is team o'neil rally, but it's not cheap, and it's up in NH. some of the rallycross series hold their own "schools." summit point (wdcr) is one of those series, holding both spring and fall schools where you get broken into small groups where you focus on a single skill, practicing a small section of track both with and without the instructor in your car, trying to help you go faster. it is cheaper than the actual rallycross event the next day. they also recently had a pacenoting course down there during the fall school, which is great for anyone who thinks they might ever want to drive or co-drive rally.

i have to look into doing the pine barrens express...i've heard it is a fun one, but my problem is finding a willing co-driver. all my friends want to be the driver.

[MConte05]

If I was still out there, I would be jumping up and down to do the co-driving, haha.

[Gabriel~]

the big one in the northeast is team o'neil rally, but it's not cheap, and it's up in NH. some of the rallycross series hold their own "schools." summit point (wdcr) is one of those series, holding both spring and fall schools where you get broken into small groups where you focus on a single skill, practicing a small section of track both with and without the instructor in your car, trying to help you go faster. it is cheaper than the actual rallycross event the next day. they also recently had a pacenoting course down there during the fall school, which is great for anyone who thinks they might ever want to drive or co-drive rally.

i have to look into doing the pine barrens express...i've heard it is a fun one, but my problem is finding a willing co-driver. all my friends want to be the driver.

yeah I saw o'neil's web page. pricey pricey for that school. I'm gonna keep looking for some other schools. If you know of some help me out here.

So the general consensus on turbos here is just to keep the stock one for now and upgrade later on when I know more specifically what I want/need from my car?

[Rally OBXT]

yes

[Jard]

If you are serious about getting into stage rally, you need to be willing to accept that you could total the car on the first stage of the first day of your first rally. Putting $3K into a turbo upgrade on a perfectly good STi doesn't make much sense to me when I think about it like that.

Starting with a perfectly good STi in the first place doesn't make much sense to me when I think about it like that.

[04caliwrx]

if your are gonna rally i dont think that a FMIC is the best for your needs, also the sti turbo will work fine for any type of rally. You are gonna want that fast spool that the 39 gives you. But if I was to get a turbo I would go with nothing bigger then a td05 20g for fast spool up. Whatever you pick do your homework, good luck man.

[I Like It Sideways]

Primitive offers a rally school as well
http://www.writerguy.com/primitive/nwrallyschool.htm

Keep the VF39, keep the top mount, go out and learn to out drive the car, then work on upgrades.
Rallycrossing in an STi is something amazing. Once you learn how to control the car, it will do EXACTLY what you want, and you can put it dang near anywhere on a rallycross course.

So... pick up some snow tires, get into rallycross, and you'll never look back

[wr-ecks]

here are some ideas for power mods that will help spool up time tremendously and yes there are really no other turbos that are significantly better for rallyX. (sorry to point you to nasioc but i asked this question a while ago and got some good answers)

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1595032


pnp your stock turbo seems like it makes a pretty big difference. thats what im gonna do pretty soon here.

oh yea and learn to drive your car on dirt X2. its amazing what you can learn with some practice. i have honestly lost (by a lot) to a guy who has driven in the dirt for like 30 years while i was in my STI and he was driving a jeep comanchee.

[Gabriel~]

here are some ideas for power mods that will help spool up time tremendously and yes there are really no other turbos that are significantly better for rallyX. (sorry to point you to nasioc but i asked this question a while ago and got some good answers)

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1595032


pnp your stock turbo seems like it makes a pretty big difference. thats what im gonna do pretty soon here.

oh yea and learn to drive your car on dirt X2. its amazing what you can learn with some practice. i have honestly lost (by a lot) to a guy who has driven in the dirt for like 30 years while i was in my STI and he was driving a jeep comanchee.

Good stuff, I was thinking about sending in my turbo before this to grimm or deadbolt for a Pnp. I've heard deadbolt can upgrade a vf to a 20G, still waiting to hear back from them about this.