Stage Rally Suspension Setup

[A1337STI]

Howdy All !

I have me a nice lil 93 FWD . I need to put in some Full Stage rally suspension but i'm not really sure of what to buy. I've heard Hotbits is cheap but won't last a full rally season. JVAB i heard was great, but i've only heard of them by 1 person and i have no idea where to find a vendor for it... the Tein 93-01 GC6/8 HG Rally Suspension looks SIICK, but also a lil more then i'de prefer to spend on the suspension.


I was really hopping to keep it to $1500 for a setup that should last just fine for say 4 or 6 rallies at least. :) (assuming i don't driver error into repeated pot holes and monster rocks)

K-Sport Rally Spec GR (http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/coilovers_detail.asp?product_id=cd03)was mentioned on the other GC imp thread... 2k ? I've never heard of K-sport, think they will last?

what's gonna fit? suggestions ? Thanks a bunch for the help

[A1337STI]

btw , my car is of course the one in the thread above with allt he pics :D

[subyspawn]

good session on SS:

http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25177&highlight=rssp

[409industries]

You might be interested in the suspension step that i am purchasing for my 2001 RS (my deposit is in, im just waiting on some final pieces to be machined). Produced by All Wheels Driven out of Bend, OR they are a coilovers built from 50mm Bilstein struts with H&R springs. I've heard many success stories of guys in GC chassis imprezas running these coilovers in everything from Production to Open classes, so i'm anxious to try them out for myself!

A set will cost ya about $2300. You know ill be posting a million pics of mine when they finally arrive!

[carl]

you can get the ksports for about 1.3k. I have them on my sti. I honestly wouldn't recommend them. As soon as I get more money mine are coming off. they are ok but I'd be delusional if I said they were a nice set-up

edit - the longer i have them the more i hate them

[dmoser]

In decreasing order of cost:

1. DMS
2. Hotbits
3. JVL
4. Bilstein

For contact information for John Vanlandingham (JVL) see the rallyanarchy.com forum. He's all over it. Be prepared to deal with a "unique" personality.

Dick

[Subie Gal]

FWIW you can find used DMS fairly cheaply

I ran DMS on my Fwd Impreza and they worked well
bit tall but the key to the rear bit is to use the OE strut top mounts (you wont have a choice)

FWD rear top mounts are unique to the FWD Impreza
top make any coilover kit work, you'll need to plan on using OE style rear mounts

case in point I'm selling my used DMS set for $1300-1400

all 4 corners, what spare bits I have left, etc.

Shop around you will find a deal.

Jamie http://www.subiegal.com/subiegal-smilie.png (http://www.subiegal.com/)

[22b-righton]

FWIW you can find used DMS fairly cheaply

I ran DMS on my Fwd Impreza and they worked well
bit tall but the key to the rear bit is to use the OE strut top mounts (you wont have a choice)

FWD rear top mounts are unique to the FWD Impreza
top make any coilover kit work, you'll need to plan on using OE style rear mounts

case in point I'm selling my used DMS set for $1300-1400

all 4 corners, what spare bits I have left, etc.

Shop around you will find a deal.

Jamie http://www.subiegal.com/subiegal-smilie.png (http://www.subiegal.com/)

Hey Jamie,

Glad to see you on this board. It's been awhile..:waving:

Are the DMS you're selling the 50s off of your wagon or something else? Needing rebuilt, or ready to go? Switching to RSSPs or?

Even if someone got a good deal on them, sometimes the rebuild cost and lack of customer service some people from going that route. We are currently rebuilding a set of 40mm DMS for a client, and the rebuild kits are $150+ea. + $75 labor. More than $165 ea for 50s.

Many of the lower cost gravel struts out there don't hold up for too long, as they are based on tarmac struts, and don't have the strength that some others do..Also, no matter what you wind up going with, you'll need to service/clean your struts every couple of events, and inspect/cycle them after each event. Even if you pay 5-6k for DMS or RSSP, you'll still need to service them often. I think that Jamie's were bound up, and that was partially to blame for the roll. If the struts don't move, the energy is tranferred into the car..sometimes launching it violently.

We've got several sets of bodies, and a bunch of inserts in stock, but are still waiting on spring hardware from the machine shop. Once that gets back, we'll be pushing them a bit harder. Aaron's (409industries, THE MAN)struts will be a good reference point for the DI crew. We're also helping with suspension on Eli's GD Open class WRX. As Aaron mentioned, they are podium proven on many rally cars in the NW, and other areas as well. Working closely with Bilstein and local machinists, has helped us develop a very solid, strong, gravel strut that works well on Subies as well as other cars.

The pics I've got of the struts aren't the best quality, but will be getting better ones taken in the next couple of weeks to post, and update our page.

Gravel suspension is a pay now or pay later sort of equation..:mrgreen: If any of you have any other technical suspension questions, feel free to post, pm or email me if needed.

[MrToad]

Not only do the FWD struts require FWD specific top hats but the bottoms are
different as well and the AWD struts do not bolt right in. For bolt-on FWD replacements you're limited to GR2's or Koni inserts which may not be the best for stage rally. Anything custom made (JVL) could probably be made to fit. An alternative is to replace the FWD rear subframe with an AWD subframe minus the diff and just use the outer portion of the rear axle to hold the hub together.Some trimming of the front of the subframe is necessary to clear the FWD gas tank. The subframe swap allows the use of the beefier Group N top hats and any available new/used AWD strut plus a possible brake upgrade if you give up the 13 inch wheels.
JT

[A1337STI]

Hmm, i sorta spaced out on checking back here for a few months. i got crazy busy with the Car build.


Well i did my first rally : http://bensimpson.smugmug.com/gallery/5241418_Y4uYH#319759605 I'm the green #9 car. I was on stock suspension though, and my rear struts are Blown :(

I'm thinking of getting the following, I need a bolt in solution , as per California rally series rulebook.
(Tein dirt trial Springs for GC6/8)
http://autosportstyle.com/shop/subaru-19932001-impreza-front-gravel-damper-tein-gtech-s9s1201041-tein-gtech-springs-p-40345.html
http://autosportstyle.com/shop/subaru-19932001-impreza-rear-gravel-damper-tein-gtech-s9s1301034-tein-gtech-springs-p-40346.html
(Tein dirt trial front dampers for GC6/8 AWD 18 way rebound adjustment)
http://autosportstyle.com/shop/subaru-19932001-impreza-25rs-incl-sports-front-1unit-spring-tein-coilovers-gravel-dss12f1ms2rl-tein-type-gravel-dampers-p-40097.html

and then i'de have to get a different strut for the Rear as everyone is saying the awd rears won't fit. :|
so maybe http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQSubaruQQImprezaQQMonroeQQStrut_AssemblyQQ1993199 9QQTS71602.html
(monroe Sensa Trac Strut)


I hit my skid plate a LOT on my stock setup, the bolt heads were getting sheared backwards. and i tore off part of the heat shielding around the Cat. :| Those front Tein Struts have adjustable ride height, if i'm reading it correctly 1.1 Inches above stock (don't see why a gravel strut would set you below stock) The monroes would put me at stock rear ride height, which honestly would probably be fine, i could also use a spring spacer to gain a 1/2 inch or so . and i'de have some tunability in the car . I can't afford Idaho Rally but i'de really love to do Gorman (6 weeks away!)


Jamie how good of shape is your suspension in? and did it raise up your car much?

[Allwheelsdriven.net]

Hmm, i sorta spaced out on checking back here for a few months. i got crazy busy with the Car build.


Well i did my first rally : http://bensimpson.smugmug.com/gallery/5241418_Y4uYH#319759605 I'm the green #9 car. I was on stock suspension though, and my rear struts are Blown :(

I'm thinking of getting the following, I need a bolt in solution , as per California rally series rulebook.
(Tein dirt trial Springs for GC6/8)
http://autosportstyle.com/shop/subaru-19932001-impreza-front-gravel-damper-tein-gtech-s9s1201041-tein-gtech-springs-p-40345.html
http://autosportstyle.com/shop/subaru-19932001-impreza-rear-gravel-damper-tein-gtech-s9s1301034-tein-gtech-springs-p-40346.html
(Tein dirt trial front dampers for GC6/8 AWD 18 way rebound adjustment)
http://autosportstyle.com/shop/subaru-19932001-impreza-25rs-incl-sports-front-1unit-spring-tein-coilovers-gravel-dss12f1ms2rl-tein-type-gravel-dampers-p-40097.html

and then i'de have to get a different strut for the Rear as everyone is saying the awd rears won't fit. :|
so maybe http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQSubaruQQImprezaQQMonroeQQStrut_AssemblyQQ1993199 9QQTS71602.html
(monroe Sensa Trac Strut)


I hit my skid plate a LOT on my stock setup, the bolt heads were getting sheared backwards. and i tore off part of the heat shielding around the Cat. :| Those front Tein Struts have adjustable ride height, if i'm reading it correctly 1.1 Inches above stock (don't see why a gravel strut would set you below stock) The monroes would put me at stock rear ride height, which honestly would probably be fine, i could also use a spring spacer to gain a 1/2 inch or so . and i'de have some tunability in the car . I can't afford Idaho Rally but i'de really love to do Gorman (6 weeks away!)


Jamie how good of shape is your suspension in? and did it raise up your car much?

Congrats on competing in your first stage event! Very exciting stuff for sure..

As far as your set up goes, as mentioned previously, it's a pay now or pay later equation. If you buy either the Teins or the Monroes you should think about picking up spares of each. The "Dirt Trials" strut is a slightly more adjustable Tein version of a KYB AGX. The shafts are small and they are pretty weak strength-wise. Dirt Trials is like a smooth dirt track with very few jumps or rough spots in the course. NOT a stage rally strut. You might as well get AGXs w obs/forester springs, since they are way easier to source. Typically anything special order form Tein takes weeks, or months to get. That screws your season if you are waiting for a replacement to show.. The Monroes aren't up to the task. If you use less than something designed for gravel, have spares, you'll need them. DMS North America is ready to go under, so keep that in mind if you are planning that route. Rebuild parts will become scarce quickly..Any proper gravel coilover will give you more ride height.

DON'T run Gorman on stock type suspension! :nono It will destroy all four corners in a hurry. Seen it many times before.. Use your entry fee towards proper suspension. There is a reason why trophy/prerunner trucks usually win that overall. We call that "truck stuff" up here.

Check out the pics here:
http://www.dirtyimpreza.com/index.php/projectrs/article/more_scraping_and_new_coilovers_are_here/

and if you have any questions look here:
http://www.dirtyimpreza.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5189

If there is anything I can do to help, please feel free to hit me up with any questions that you have.

Barrett-
www.allwheelsdriven.net (http://www.allwheelsdriven.net)

[A1337STI]

Hey Barrett,
Can you make a set of your all wheel driven gravel coilovers, for a Front Wheel Drive GC Car?
My car is ~ 2450 with a full tank of gas. 1400 Front 1050 rear (had it on car scales recently) Obviously i need slightly different rear struts so that they fit properly. which was why i was thinking about getting the Dirt Trials up front, with Monroes in the rear (as the monroes are a oem fitment for a 2wd imp rear end) :D
the tein spring rates are 230 front 190 rear . not sure if that's enough or if i'de want a lil more. i don't know what my stock spring rate is .. :| but i hit my skid plate on any caution dip that i hit with speed. :P
oh yarr and obviously i need to gain some ride height in the front but i don't know how much. an Inch? maybe more. adjustable would be great . and a lil bit higher in the rear wouldn't be bad either, but nothing scraped back there last rally.

[Allwheelsdriven.net]

Hey Barrett,
Can you make a set of your all wheel driven gravel coilovers, for a Front Wheel Drive GC Car?
My car is ~ 2450 with a full tank of gas. 1400 Front 1050 rear (had it on car scales recently) Obviously i need slightly different rear struts so that they fit properly. which was why i was thinking about getting the Dirt Trials up front, with Monroes in the rear (as the monroes are a oem fitment for a 2wd imp rear end) :D
the tein spring rates are 230 front 190 rear . not sure if that's enough or if i'de want a lil more. i don't know what my stock spring rate is .. :| but i hit my skid plate on any caution dip that i hit with speed. :P
oh yarr and obviously i need to gain some ride height in the front but i don't know how much. an Inch? maybe more. adjustable would be great . and a lil bit higher in the rear wouldn't be bad either, but nothing scraped back there last rally.

Sure..

We can build them no problem. Just need some o/a length measurements off of the rear stockers.

No matter what application we build for, they are typically .5"-1" minimum, taller than stock. The valving and spring rates will be determined by the weight of the car (lighter than most Subies).

One of our clients' cars was running at N. Nevada on that set up.. Dick Rockrohr in the multi-bright colored GC coupe. Think he won the 2nd regional OA with a 1.8. :lol:

I'd be glad to help you get your car sorted.

Barrett-
www.allwheelsdriven.net (http://www.allwheelsdriven.net)

[A1337STI]

Yes I was chatting with Dick Rockrohr a bit about his car, my car, and tire pressure, We were both on Silverstone tires, he was using the 525, (14" rim) and i was on the 505 (13" rim) i had my tire pressures set way to high (ended up at 45 psi) he said not to use over 30, i dropped mine down to 30 and got Much better grip.

This is very interesting, the Photographer got a pic of his car, and my car at almost exactly the same position in the same corner, and We were both on the same racing line. You can see that Dick's GC appears to be sitting 2 inches taller than my GC That may be partly due to my using a 165/65/13 Tire, stock was 165/80/13 for my car. So that causes me to lose about .9" inches of ground clearance :(

http://bensimpson.smugmug.com/gallery/5241418_Y4uYH#319969755_usFmV-XL-LB
http://bensimpson.smugmug.com/gallery/5241418_Y4uYH#319998553_kJBvf-XL-LB
if you open both in a new windows and align them up side by side its easier to tell

[imprezars]

Okay, I dont know what FWD impreza you guys were modding, but my 02 WRX struts bolted right into the rear. I even used AWD RS tophats which means they'll fit on a FWD 93 impreza. The FWD rear tophat design is a little different, but AWD gc8 tophats will bolt right up regardless. I'll have pics up later, but you CAN PUT AWD STRUTS ON YOUR FWD CAR WITH ONLY CHANGING TOPHATS. I'm busting this myth, if I had known I could have done this mod several days ago.