controlled slide/drift

[MetalNeverDies]

k how exactally do i start a controlled drift/slide on the pavement. also how do you do it on the dirt? i can get the car to slide on dirt but its never really all that pretty. i also know that ebrake is your enemy with the subaru awd. i normally try the flick and get the car sideways. on pavement though i dont know what the deal is i can throw out a flick and as soon as the car snaps back into the turn and you get the back end out the tires hop or just vibrate for some wierd reason. is it cause i only have a 13mm rear sway bar or is it that a 2.5i impreza wagon just doesnt have the power recuired to get way sideways on pavement and dirt?

[RS-ti_Andy]

is your wagon a MT or AT?

there is alot to drifting AWD.. tire pressures, heal toe action, getting in the right gear, flat ground, down slope, up slope, "the apexi effect" breaking , type of tires.. there are forums dedicated to drifting and will help u on AWD.. i dont have much experience in driftin AWD but
An AWD drift is very different from a RWD drift. For one you have to shift your weight a lot more and throw your car sideways. Once this is done you use the gas to lose some grip on all four tires and basically keep direction with that, if you change the direction of the wheel trying to counter steer it won't work like RWD. Look at pics of AWD drifts, the front and back tires are for all intesive purposes straight.


7zYZ_zItA1Y

[dppaladino]

In my RS it is very easy to initiate a slide on dirt or even damp pavement. When I have driven my friends GD OBS, it is MUCH more difficult to get the car to do what you want on dirt because of all the under steer. You could try to throw the car into the way you want to slide and then engaging the clutch for a second under full throttle to break the wheels free.

[RS-ti_Andy]

oh im talking about dry pavement lol wet is easy

[kevinblahh]

is your wagon a MT or AT?



7zYZ_zItA1Y


seen this video so many times and just love the sound of the car "POP POP POP WAAAAAAAAAAAAA, WAAAAAA"

i want a wrx :-(

[MetalNeverDies]

yea i know its easier to do that on wet pavement and dirt but my car still doesnt even break loose really it just gets tons of under steer slide or it bogs down some once i break loose. its a manual. 5spd FTW. i only have stock re92's... they are lookin pretty bald so im going to pick up some bfg g-force tires in 16x6.5 sometime this week.

i <3 that suby with the antilag system if thats what the video was. im at school so i cant watch thoughs videos :(

[Lesac]

essentially the key to AWD drifting and keeping a slide, (well the same is true with all drifting) but learn throttle control. basically the more gas you give it the more you will slide. i think thats about the easiest way to describe what you have to learn. also you have to be smooth with it

[MilesFox]

set up for a turn, hang it wide then all of a sudden cut in whilst letting off the gas or jabbing the brake. once the as end kicks out nail the gas and follow through

you can countersteer at the first moment of a slide but be sure to steer into it with the direction of travel, otherwise then the rear hooks up you are going the other way!(snap steering)

really weight and balance is the key moreso than raw power and spinning of tires.

[Lesac]

really weight and balance is the key moreso than raw power and spinning of tires.

thats exactly what i was trying to get at.
you dont need a ridiculous amount of power, ist just how you control it

[MetalNeverDies]

so bassically if i can just get the back end out to side some then 165 hp is enough to keep me sliding?

[Lesac]

sort of yea... its all about remaining sliding.

[UP2MTNS]

you can countersteer at the first moment of a slide but be sure to steer into it with the direction of travel, otherwise then the rear hooks up you are going the other way!(snap steering)

sort of....once you start counter steering, STAY ON THE GAS.....


snap steering happens when you're counter steering and you let up on the gas....that transfers your weight forward, on your front tires (and therefore lightens your rear end).....your front tires grip more and your back end becomes very loose.....your butt switch sides and suddenly you're pointed in the wrong direction and moving rather quickly ;)

now, if you have 2 or 3 turns connected, that's a very easy way to whip your car very quickly through a series of turns....always loose and fast.

[MConte05]

165 is definitly enough, I can do it in my 173.

[brd360sk8]

All I do in my rex is the ol' scandanavian flick. Get it going and if it starts to grab give it whats called a "clutch kick". In mid drift push the clutch in rev it up and pop it back out real quick to get tires spinning again. If that doesn't help then you might be in to high of a gear to keep them spinning.

[MetalNeverDies]

with a clutch kick how bad is it if you let it in and rev while in slide or turn then just drop it to get the wheels spinning vs slowly letting out on it?

k so i practiced for a bit after school cause my tires are pretty much dead and ive got new ones comming in tomarrow. i was able to get pretty sideways after i hit threw the water a few times then i got pretty sideways on the dry pavement. but heres the problem. i cant slide completely and i can only do doughnuts.... i dont know if its casue i just suck super bad at driving or if its still just really difficult with only having a 13mm sway bar and soft springs

[UP2MTNS]

i dont know if its casue i just suck super bad at driving or if its still just really difficult with only having a 13mm sway bar and soft springs

that's definitely part of it...carefull you don't hit a dry patch and flip your car. I'm not joking.

[MetalNeverDies]

lol so other than getting better at driving.... the sti pink springs im going to install and eventually when i get a new sway bar then i should be able to do it betteR? you can seriously flip your car going from wet to dry pavement? thats crazy. it was huge puddles so my tires were king wet and i woudl use the splashed out water to try and get the pavement slicker... besides i wasnt really even out of first gear so maybe 25 mph max

[UP2MTNS]

lol so other than getting better at driving.... the sti pink springs im going to install and eventually when i get a new sway bar then i should be able to do it betteR? you can seriously flip your car going from wet to dry pavement? thats crazy. it was huge puddles so my tires were king wet and i woudl use the splashed out water to try and get the pavement slicker... besides i wasnt really even out of first gear so maybe 25 mph max

who was it that flipped the suby at a rally cross late last year? they weren't going very fast iirc....that was an outback or wagon, wasn't it?

[MetalNeverDies]

well i could see it in dirt... cause no grip and sloppy then a bump up to hard stiff ground tire catches and the car starts to roll.

[brd360sk8]

lololol I used to drift my moms ford escape in the snow.... I was SOOOO scared of dry spots lmao and my friends are all like all you gotta do is just book it! I'm like noooo I don't wana lol

[Hairy Sheep]

i thought you would just blow the bead out before it rolled, i had no idea.
doing donuts in the snow with our old 92' Explorer was crazy, you hit a dry spot and the whole thing rocks back and forth like its going to tip

i havent been able to find a big enough area to try drifting on pavement, i can only do it for short periods like when i had all 4 wheels spinning in the grass than i got up onto the asphalt. im sure it wouldnt be near as hard if i didnt have that 4EAT

[409industries]

It is in fact VERY easy to get the STi sideways. I beg to differ that mucho power is not a factor in getting a car sideways. Dump 2nd gear and its all sideways action after that.

With my RS on the other hand, i haven't really had a good shot and left foot braking and whipping it around. On a bum clutch and dead brakebads w/ squishy brakeflud its still up in the air how well i can throw that thing around.

[MetalNeverDies]

oh im sure it is easy to get an sti sliding sideways lol but 2.5 i wagon is a little tougher. and no you dont need to blow the bead before you roll my friend rolled his bronco going about 25-30 mph on a dirt road and got kinda sidways cause of a washboard road about a wide corner and we ended up rolling over 1.5 times and his tires had rocks shoved behind the rubber inbetween the wheels but they till held air and didnt break the bead.

[MilesFox]

so bassically if i can just get the back end out to side some then 165 hp is enough to keep me sliding?

not horsepower. momentum

i can drift my 90 hp 88 fwd sedan. i can drift a 26 foot u-haul truck.

brakes and steering FTW

[RS-ti_Andy]

It is in fact VERY easy to get the STi sideways. I beg to differ that mucho power is not a factor in getting a car sideways. Dump 2nd gear and its all sideways action after that.

.


nicely said also.. i forgot to mention... when dropping it into 2nd.. the higher revs will take care of getting those tires loose. helps if u have some negative camber too..

[RS-ti_Andy]

is your wagon a MT or AT?

there is alot to drifting AWD.. tire pressures, heal toe action, getting in the right gear, flat ground, down slope, up slope, "the apexi effect" breaking , type of tires.. there are forums dedicated to drifting and will help u on AWD.. i dont have much experience in driftin AWD but
An AWD drift is very different from a RWD drift. For one you have to shift your weight a lot more and throw your car sideways. Once this is done you use the gas to lose some grip on all four tires and basically keep direction with that, if you change the direction of the wheel trying to counter steer it won't work like RWD. Look at pics of AWD drifts, the front and back tires are for all intesive purposes straight.




we didnt read mine did we?

[409industries]

not horsepower. momentum


indeed... start swaying back and forth a couple of times, you can whip it really good after the 2nd pendulum... :muhaha:

[RS-ti_Andy]

indeed... start swaying back and forth a couple of times, you can whip it really good after the 2nd pendulum... :muhaha:


yeah.. i used to do that down whole roads lol.. u can ask the azz hole cop who watched me and when he pulled me over was yelling at me like i killed someone lol haha vaderSTI i believe was behind me with some other friends haha

[anaonbd]

when you have really soft springs, one side of the car hits a dry spot and the side starts to drop into the deceleration, then the other side which is still going pushes the car down even more. after that the side that has grip acts just like a hinge and the car starts to rotate over the vertex.

The bead doesn't come off because it's much easier for a car to flip than the tyres popping out.

[brd360sk8]

Come On!!! Scandanavian flick!!! its what the rally car drivers do lol.

[MetalNeverDies]

flick FTMFW

[wr-ecks]

my o4 wrx wagon would drift good in the dirt but on dry pavement i didnt like to try very often. i dont know if it was specific to my car but that car had so much body flex it was crazy. if i was REAL hard on it i could even feel the rear tires steering away from the car. it was a very eery feeling. so i was always easy on it on the pavement. plus dirt is much more fun!

[Hairy Sheep]

well today i went out and tried this braking method, sorta. it snowed a little(kinda), so the parking area behind Kohls was wet and in some places snow covered.
there was a light pole in the middle so i was going to try and kick the rear end out going around it and sorta start a drift. i put it in 1st (with the rear end clutch locked up) and started up to it. i started around it and hit the brakes to shift the weight, the body rolled WAY over and it got a little loose. so when i felt the rear go out i floored it and i got it to hold for only about 30 feet before i did a tank slapper.
my car isnt capable of over powering the wheels on pavement unless its snow or ice covered, but rest assured, i have no problems at all on unpaved surfaces

[nordicskiah]

I tried it out yesterday after some snow came down. I was a little hesitant about the braking hard w/o clutch. It worked alright and i need some practice, but for the next hour of driving after my first attempt my braking felt very effed up. There was a ton of resistance on the pedal and kindof felt like I was pressing the pedal through a bunch of sand.... by the end of driving last night it felt better and close to normal again (either that or i got used to it)

[the_wrath_of_Khan]

Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0uOQS0aggw

Getting your car to slide like you see in the rallies is all about what differentials it has.

[MetalNeverDies]

thats beautiful :)

[MetalNeverDies]

this would be fun too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmy3AXqhILI

[the_wrath_of_Khan]

Yeah I got to take a ride with solberg doing that about a month after that video at the Car and Driver 50th Aniversary:

I'm the guy on Petter's left:
http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/9372/dscf0013medium0mi.jpg

[nordicskiah]

^^ awww nice

so any comments on the brake problem guys?

I tried it out yesterday after some snow came down. I was a little hesitant about the braking hard w/o clutch. It worked alright and i need some practice, but for the next hour of driving after my first attempt my braking felt very effed up. There was a ton of resistance on the pedal and kindof felt like I was pressing the pedal through a bunch of sand.... by the end of driving last night it felt better and close to normal again (either that or i got used to it)

[sebhockey]

^^ awww nice

so any comments on the brake problem guys?

Maybe you got something between the rotors and pads? About all I can say on that one.





Keep in mind that getting your car sideways isn't about power or suspension setup, though they can make it easier. The more you turn and accelerate/decelerate the more likely you are to break the limits of adhesion, also weight balance helps too which comes with accelerating/decelerating. Meaning if you turn hard and accelerate hard you're more likely to hit/pass the limits of adhesion vs turning lightly and accelerating lightly.

If you just want to drift/break loose coming around a corner then come in fast, brake hard, release brakes, turn hard then unturn when needed. At this point the car should be as sideways as you want it, you should NOT be on the brakes while your turning the wheel. Then accelerate after the apex.

If you're wanting to do a 180/Scandanavian flick, then come in hard, tap the brakes hard, turn away from turn, wait for back end to respond then turn into turn and punch gas at the same time. The car should pivot around like you want

These apply to any kind of surface, and it's the principles on which some rally school's teach their classes with. They just take time to practice and patience to learn correctly. Keep in mind these will sometimes involve driving outside of people's comfort zones or braking habbits that you're used to.

Also another useful tidbit that can help in doing these, use BOTH hands on the wheel. You have a lot more control with both hands and can turn the wheel faster this way.

[UP2MTNS]

^^ awww nice

so any comments on the brake problem guys?


what kind of car are you in again? man....we need to have 'what car I drive' underneath the screen name.

anyway, sounds like a brake booster issue. I forget all the fun details, but basically suby power steering has 'brake booster' that comes on when you let up on the accelerator and the vacuum created helps power the brakes.

When you LFB, you're not letting up on the gas, so the brake pedal feels much stiffer than if you let up the gas, and hit it with your right foot like usual.

I think Erik at L&E makes a brake booster delete, so the pedal is stiff all the time and you get used to it.

[nordicskiah]

what kind of car are you in again? man....we need to have 'what car I drive' underneath the screen name.

2000 Outback Wagon, I'll put it in my sig later. Looks like everyone has their vehicles in their signatures...


When you LFB, you're not letting up on the gas, so the brake pedal feels much stiffer than if you let up the gas, and hit it with your right foot like usual.

I think Erik at L&E makes a brake booster delete, so the pedal is stiff all the time and you get used to it.

yeah but would this continue even after the LFB? My brake was stiff for like 45min to an hour of driving

[T-Heineken]

this would be fun too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmy3AXqhILI

Oh wow....that would be sooooo much fun. I can't wait until I become WRC status (daydreaming is good for you) :D

[munozppk]

this would be fun too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmy3AXqhILI


Must've thought he was at some sideshow in oakland at the end
hahaha

[MetalNeverDies]

ok so i got my new springs in (sti pinks) as well as better stiffer sidewall tires. i still cant whip it sideways or swing the back end around. its very frustrating. the only way i can really even get the car to slide around is if its under steering around in a circle or trying to corner i cant get a real slide or doughnut out of it unless i go through water or im in dirt. i want to be able to slide on both. i didnt try hitting the ebrake cause i know thats bad but i did LFB and let off and on the gas i could get the tires spinning but it was just cause it was trying to turn was getting no grip and kept understeering. if i got a 20 mm rear sway bar and stock front bar would i beable to whip the back around when i want or are there other techniques to swing the back end out. even if its just to slide sidways around corners? i know how to do it in dirt kind of but i need to learn how to do it on pavement

[the_wrath_of_Khan]

It is all about what LSDs you have. My STI V3 RA can drift like a D1 car, but my STI V4 cannot. You have to have good LSDs and do not be afraid to hit the e-brake to adjust your angle.

[MetalNeverDies]

i thought that the ebrake was super bad for our center diffs? and how what kind of lsd should i put into my car? do they make an after market lsd for the 2.5 i impreza wagon? i would probably only want one for the rear. would it be super expensive to put in?

[iceflap]

alright i drift my wrx more than i really drive it and i have to say pavment with a allwheel drive car takes balls, you need alot of speed and clutch kick as you turn in, this works well on gravel ,wet roads,snow on dry roads i use feint,(slow turn of the wheel away from the corner to shift the weight a little then give a good wrench in the driection of the corner) after i do that i get a little under thats cured by a good old clutch kick. i wouldnt say ima drifter tho so dont take my info as the how to it works for me, but drifting requires that you do you own style of driving. i would post vids on my snow drifting but im not a computer dude and so getting my vid on the interweb has been proving to be a big challenge

[UP2MTNS]

after watching that first video again, and just coming out of the 'sideways vs raceline' thread, that guy is no where near the race line in most of those corners ;)

sideways on pavement = slowwwwww