Best antenna for a rally car?

[409industries]

Just going to throw this out there...

Who has a radio in the car and what antenna are you using? Pros / Cons?

Which antenna would you recommend and why?

p.s. yes i am looking to get one myself. :)

[DeathSStar]

Just going to throw this out there...

Who has a radio in the car and what antenna are you using? Pros / Cons?

Which antenna would you recommend and why?

p.s. yes i am looking to get one myself. :)

Antenna is not as important as the mount. The only mount you should be looking at is an NMO mount. It is a through-hole mount that requires a 3/4" hole in the roof/trunk lid. Ty and myself are running multiple radios in our wagons and both of us use NMO mounts.

Right now I have a dual band Larsen antenna for my amateur radio, er...radio and some custom made wideband antennas for some other comms gear.

What kind of radio are you wanting to install? That will drive the conversation on antennas.

[Anders Green]

Second that. 2 NMO mounts on the rally car and one on each of the dailies. Drill it up and get that part done first
:-)

A

[UP2MTNS]

I have this one on the rally car and I like it:
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamantm/3914.html

Flexible (but won't snap), dual band (I have dual band radios), and up to 60 watts.


what radio are you looking to get? I've found adding a decent antenna even to a handheld radio will boost output/receive capabilities quite a bit.

[hoche]

I like Comets, but I've had Diamonds and they're ok.

If you get a dual-band, it'll have a coil in the middle. Some are a big 1" or so spring made out of the antenna wire itself, and some are a black plastic piece that screws two antenna elements together, holding them with allen setscrews. I've found that the spring-types survive much better. The allen screws tend to loosen and either throw the antenna out of tune or let the top half fall off entirely.

+1 for NMO mounts.

-michel
KF6ZST

[DeathSStar]

This is the Larsen dual band (VHF/UHF) hammy antenna I'm running...it's the one in the foreground:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6103/6350358897_aeb6f00129_z.jpg

It's a no-gain 1/4 wave design, but it has the open coil which is more forgiving to a rough environment. The flip side is that open coil antennas are snagged easier by brush, branches etc. so if you are running in thick undercuts it may be better to have a closed coil antenna. In my case, this actual antenna has been installed on my last two cars and is probably 3 or 4 years old. It has been hit by birds, road debris and low-hanging branches and is still 100%. In the case of Larsen antennas, usually the only way to get the dual bander's in black is to get the open-coil version of each model. The stainless versions have closed coils and some of them have shock springs on the base.

My career is two-way land mobile radio communication, mostly public safety, so if someone needs pointers or help finding equipment (like mounts and antennae) let me know and I can point you in the right direction. I am -not- trying to sell anything (ergo, needing vendor status) on the board...just willing to be a reference source.

[personal rant]
FWIW, the Comet and Diamond antennas are overpriced overseas gizmo antennas that make big claims but don't really work better than anything else when properly installed. They are popular with the ham community because of the heavy marketing but there are other options out there.
[/rant]

[KevinWelker]

Burke, what kind of range are you getting at rallys with your setup?

Honestly, I tried the HAM thing back in '07 and just gave up on it. The range was so short that I had cell phone service before I was within range. Now if I could get onto the rally repeaters that might help, but I don't know if that is allowed or possible.

But my point really is: Are HAM radios really worth it in the rally car or should we just stick with cell phones for crew to crew coms? (a HAM for contacting rally medical/safety is valuable and a different question)

[409industries]

Where are you guys buying the NMO mounts? I am no stranger to drilling holes in the roof of my car so this isn't a big deal.

what radio are you looking to get? I've found adding a decent antenna even to a handheld radio will boost output/receive capabilities quite a bit.

Either a Yaesu FT-2900R or FT-7900R I am still weighing the pros-cons of going with dualband.



But my point really is: Are HAM radios really worth it in the rally car or should we just stick with cell phones for crew to crew coms? (a HAM for contacting rally medical/safety is valuable and a different question)

This is a great discussion piece. Granted there are some places where cell service is non-existent but for most places phones actually DO work most of the time.

[kturner]

I use Larsen 1/4 whips on NMO mounts, price is good but I haven't done a side to side comparison.

For the HAM vs. Cell thing it all depends on where you are rallying. For example Black River has 3G on pretty much every stage but NEFR and STPR are very spotty for Cell coverage and sometimes even HAM because of the terrain. I see the main purpose of having a HAM in the car is for quick emergency communication to net control or the stage captain. That said make sure you have all the net frequencies programmed and you know how to use your transceiver.

[UP2MTNS]

Burke, what kind of range are you getting at rallys with your setup?

It varies, but I remember hitting Zach at service back at Seed9 when we were transiting on the back/farthest side of those hills.\

I actually think the biggest problem is having someone AT the radio when you're trying to get their attention.


I just got another handheld on ebay with a longer whip so Zach can have it on his person when walking around service inbetween stages.

[kturner]

I actually think the biggest problem is having someone AT the radio when you're trying to get their attention.


isn't that what cross band repeating is for?

[UP2MTNS]

isn't that what cross band repeating is for?

doesn't help if you only have 2 HAM radios. My 208H doesn't have that feature, something I'd change if I did it all over again now. I might even try to sell it online and get a different icom.

[STPR-Radio]

An aside to the main topic: From some of the discussions on SpecialStage.com, one of suggestions was to always carry a second antenna INSIDE the car -- for the eventual roll-over, when you will really be wanting to communicate with the rally nets! Most were suggesting carrying a mag-mount setup. Reminder to adequately secure the spare antenna, so as not to become missile during mishaps. Your mag-mount emergency antenna will work best mounted on the largest plane of metal you can access following an "incident".

Some tie-ins to other posts in this thread:

1.) For the open coil antennas described and "pictured" in earlier posts, Ty uses shrink tubing over the coil to reduce the chance of branches catching IN the coils.

2.) If you happen to be able to look at the gear you might purchase, then look carefully at: the quality/fit/"beefyness" of the mechanical connectors, and the quality of the metal finishes, gasket quality, soldering connections, etc. I have found some lower priced gear that was just as nice as some of the "name brand" stuff. That being said, my last Larsen NMO mount was a step above others in that they included multiple gasket options for varying usages. Paid a bit more, but also got more value.

3.) In order to seal out the elements, and to keep the set screws from loosening, I have used a small dab of Permatex windshield sealant to on my dual band antennas fittings. It has worked well for years. No denying though that the open coil designs will probably be able to withstand more "heavy" hits from large branches.

4.) GENERALLY/SIMPLISTICALLY speaking, the longer your antenna (more metal to gather/intersect radio energy), the better your antenna will "hear"/receive. Transmission capability, SIMPLISTICALLY speaking, will be tied to the quality of the install (good grounding, largest metal plane you can access, height of install point, etc.), rf output (# of watts) and terrain and vegetation density issues. Simplistically speaking, the shorter antenna designs TEND to launch your transmissions at a higher angle which might be marginally better in hilly terrain. Many repeaters will be at higher altitudes, so theoretically their ability to hear your transmission might be improved by the higher launch angles. Hopefully, the repeaters height will also aid in getting their signal down to your shorter, more "deaf" antenna.

[vicali]

Either a Yaesu FT-2900R or FT-7900R I am still weighing the pros-cons of going with dualband.


I'm looking at the FT-2900R as well, Larson NMO is the antenna that has been highly recommended.. 2900 has a heatsink case so no fans to dust-up/jiggle to death either..

If I was putting more $$ into a bigger mobile I would make sure it had a cross band repeater so you could use a hand held when you're out of your car.

[STPR-Radio]

I should have stuck closer to the central topic in my original post.

PERSONALLY, I have had good performance, value and reliability from:

1.) A couple of 5/8ths wave NMO mount Hustler antennas, model LMB-144.


2.) Tram 1180 (dual bander, center loaded), but the earliest models (years ago) had problems with high wattages.


3.) Larsen NMO 150B.


Don't forget to consider having a "backup/emergency" mag-mount antenna secured inside the car since a roll-over or other accident might break your main antenna. Few antennas will be effective planted into the earth and with a car sitting on top of them...:mrgreen: Be careful when attempting to use your radio setup after an accident that has battered your antenna (i.e. - an excursion through the trees and brush). If the antenna takes a heavy beating from tree limbs and such, then you might damage radio output components/"finals" by trying to transmit and push rf into damaged antenna components. If you have no luck with a quick break-in into a rally's radio net after 3-4 tries, then you might want to switch to your backup antenna.