Quick Steering Rack Vs. Steering quickener

[bfrancis827]

I have decided that the next thing I want to do is upgrade the steering.

I have been looking at the Q-Rack (http://www.q-rack.com)

http://www.q-rack.com/images/rack2.jpghttp://www.q-rack.com/images/rack3.jpg


and L&E Fabrication (http://www.landefabrication.com/steering.html).

http://www.landefabrication.com/images/steering.jpg


I know that a lot of people have the L&E setup and I've heard good things, but what about a quick rack. I think at some point I read that Carl (Ziptie Rally) uses a Q-rack, but other then that I know nothing about it.

What are the advantages or disadvantages of each? Right now the biggest difference I can see is the price. I was quoted $1500 shipped for a new Q-Rack. L&E doesn't have one for the '07 STi yet, but they said they could do it, so I suppose that would be $680.

What is a stock STi rack with a 1.5:1 quickener equivalent to in terms of rack ratios? Lock to lock?

Q-Rack uses 11.5:1 and their site says that it's about 2.4 turns.

Any thought?

[driveclimbslide]

I'm getting a Q-rack myself. Biggest reasoning was that I'm a sucker for following what the big teams do. VTSC, Four Star Motorsports, etc. all use/used a q-rack.

Aside from that I think a quickener puts more strain on the power steering and is less safe in terms of reducing the column's ability to collapse in an accident. A q-rack is obviously more expensive.

[kturner]

I'm surprised no one has tried to source something through a company like http://www.mavalgear.com/ since they seem to do offroad and other custom applications.

We run a coleman quickener and it is about 2 turns lock to lock. it will collapse a little but the cage also changes how things crumple. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l26/junglefbs/P9041538.jpg

I've never really cared for the L&E stuff, if you've had a column apart there really isn't anything keeping the thing from spinning. but others seem to like them.

[bfrancis827]

After talking with the guys from Q-Rack I have decided to go that route. Should be here in 10 days! I think this might be the first time I have made a decision without torturing myself for weeks. Torture only lasted a couple days and I still have some sanity left.

Thanks for the input guys.

[driveclimbslide]

What else did they say to convince you? We should be getting ours pretty soon so I'll let you know if I come across any tricks.

[UP2MTNS]

What is a stock STi rack with a 1.5:1 quickener equivalent to in terms of rack ratios? Lock to lock?

Q-Rack uses 11.5:1 and their site says that it's about 2.4 turns.

Any thought?

that's it? I don't know what the stock STI is, but a stock WRX is 3 turns lock to lock, and that takes forever. 2.4 turns isn't much of an improvement.


I've never really cared for the L&E stuff, if you've had a column apart there really isn't anything keeping the thing from spinning. but others seem to like them.

what do you mean 'keep them from spinning'? Construction looks just like your photo of the coleman, I'm just curious the difference. I've taken the planetary gear apart, but not the actual column.


my setup is 1.75 turns lock to lock, its crazy fun. L&E column w/an STI steering rack. Still on the stock power steering.

[bfrancis827]

What else did they say to convince you? We should be getting ours pretty soon so I'll let you know if I come across any tricks.

First of all, I think I got a good deal. It's more expensive then some other options, but there is more work involved, so it's understandable. I haven't read any bad reviews and everyone loves it.

I was trying to get a core exchange, but they wouldn't do it because they said the '05-'07 rack is weak and they don't want it. They only use 2004 racks and then machine them to fit. It's a new rack, so I will still have the old one to sell or use as a spare. There were a couple of other things, but I can't remember right now.

I was already kinda leaning that way and the fact that Rocket Rally, SRTUSA among others (like you said) uses them, I figure I couldn't go wrong. I don't really like the idea of adding extra gears to the steering column, either.

But, to each his own. I'm not looking to start any grand debates, just trying to find the pros and cons of the options out there.:thumbsup: (BTW, I'm not implying anything, either, lol.)

that's it? I don't know what the stock STI is, but a stock WRX is 3 turns lock to lock, and that takes forever. 2.4 turns isn't much of an improvement.

my setup is 1.75 turns lock to lock, its crazy fun. L&E column w/an STI steering rack. Still on the stock power steering.

Found this over on Nasioc: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1577670

Sounds like the website might be wrong. This is one (important) thing I forgot to ask about. I asked about a faster ratio then 11.5:1 and they said they use to offer a 10.5:1, but the difference over the 11.5:1 was very marginal and they stopped making them. I would think that 2 or a little under from lock to lock sounds more like it considering the STi is already about 2.5 or 2.6.

[hoche]

Aside from that I think a quickener ... is less safe in terms of reducing the column's ability to collapse in an accident.

Generally they're put in separate sections of the column. The only reason they'd be less safe is if you replaced the collapsible section with the quickener.

[kturner]

what do you mean 'keep them from spinning'? Construction looks just like your photo of the coleman, I'm just curious the difference. I've taken the planetary gear apart, but not the actual column.

IIRC the only thing holding the lower portion of the column to the upper portion is some epoxy a ball bearing collar thingy (its been a while since I had it apart). ie there isn't a positive stop to keep the outer housing from spinning if it really wanted to (not sure if it would). Mine mounts to the upper portion of the column which bolts to a solid mount.

they are also overpriced IMO, but I am cheap so..

[sniper1rfa]

that's it? I don't know what the stock STI is, but a stock WRX is 3 turns lock to lock, and that takes forever. 2.4 turns isn't much of an improvement.



Mine's a hair over two turns. It's fast enough for two-hands-on driving even in tight areas.


The biggest annoyance I've had is outpacing the steering pump. I don't know if that would be a problem with the STi pump.

[oppnedgearhead]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I've been considering options on this topic for awhile now. One thing I didn't see anyone address (may have missed) was the question the OP asked "what are the main differences?"

I know most people just consider a quick rack or quick column two ways of simply lessening the amount of turns required lock-to-lock, but because they go about it differently I think it's important to discuss why.

Because of the way a rack and pinion works, if you "quicken" it, you will lose turning radius. Steering "weight" remains constant.

By regearing the column, however, the rack still functions normally and turning radius is unaffected. However because you are displacing more force quicker when turning (force multiplier by gearing), it results in heavier steering, because the pump can only work so hard and you are physically rotating the pinion more/faster for the same amount of steering wheel rotation.

Therefore you have to consider, which are you willing to sacrifice for faster steering, radius or weight? I suspect the rack is popular because Subarus feel a bit heavy as is, and in long race stints, maintaining steering weight is a plus due to fatigue. Turning radius might not be that important off road/on track.

In my opinion with my GC, I'd prefer to keep my turning radius, and by swapping out the control arms from steel to forged aluminum, I don't see much difference in steering weight because the column and lower unsprung weight of the arms balance out.

Things to consider other than the previously stated price and safety aspects.

I'm a mechanic so I suppose I look at things differently...

[Whizbang Rally]

technically you can change the ackerman (the point that the steering ball joint attaches to the hub) and improve the steering ratio too but that might be beyond most peoples abilities. Having the rack gearing replaced is easier on the pump than a quicken-er is, but a quickener is much much cheaper in most cases. You can get away with a much larger P/S cooler to keep it under control

[Hitokiri]

What kind of PS pump would I be looking at to keep up with something like this? Mine just went out (driving to school is fun) and I need to replace, but I obviously want to upgrade it instead of OEM. Can someone link me to a good product so I can start looking? 09 EJ255.

[Whizbang Rally]

frankly, i know of no existing direct replacement, but summit racing might sell some performance pumps of various sorts, you would just be up for having to make the brackets to mount it properly. A replacement stocker and a somewhat large cooler would help. MY 80 celica pump failed from boiling since it had only the loop cooler. I ended up using an oil cooler from a I think a conquest or something and it was able to handle the steering.

[Hitokiri]

Hmm... thanks for the input! I'll definitely go check it out. Usually go there for my American cars. I'm going to be protecting the bearings from mud this time. Thanks! :thumbsup:

[UP2MTNS]

What kind of PS pump would I be looking at to keep up with something like this? Mine just went out (driving to school is fun) and I need to replace, but I obviously want to upgrade it instead of OEM. Can someone link me to a good product so I can start looking? 09 EJ255.

I'm on the OEM WRX pump and I have a quickener AND and STI rack. No issues. Stay with what works.

[oppnedgearhead]

technically you can change the ackerman (the point that the steering ball joint attaches to the hub) and improve the steering ratio too but that might be beyond most peoples abilities. Having the rack gearing replaced is easier on the pump than a quicken-er is, but a quickener is much much cheaper in most cases. You can get away with a much larger P/S cooler to keep it under control
Yes, this is a good point and better summerized. I was of course speaking from a "all things remaining the same" point.

I've heard some people saying the WRX pump is not enough on the heavier chassis, Also heard the STi pump helps mitigate this problem. Perhaps just throw a STi p/s pump on it if it becomes a problem? Not that I'm against over the top custom work that takes a little fabrication. Can't be too tough.

[UP2MTNS]

technically you can change the ackerman (the point that the steering ball joint attaches to the hub) and improve the steering ratio too but that might be beyond most peoples abilities.

just an FYI, Perrin makes a product that does exactly this, if anyone's that interested.

[Whizbang Rally]

Thats what is nice about cars that everyone has, you can find cool stuff like that...

[sniper1rfa]

I know most people just consider a quick rack or quick column two ways of simply lessening the amount of turns required lock-to-lock, but because they go about it differently I think it's important to discuss why.

Because of the way a rack and pinion works, if you "quicken" it, you will lose turning radius. Steering "weight" remains constant.


A little late, but I thought I'd nip this bit of BS in the bud.

The Q-rack has the same throw, and thus turning radius, as the stock piece. Just like the quickener, you end up with a heavier steering feel. I have no idea where you've got the idea that information but it's wrong. Both devices have an identical effect with regards to steering ratio, speed, and weight.

[kurt.]

just an FYI, Perrin makes a product that does exactly this, if anyone's that interested.

Never really undestood that thing perrin sales until this morning (because of some recent ackerman angle research related to drift cars), but it actually brings one more item to the table, steering angle (hence why its used quite often on drift cars). It comes with a new hardstop for the rack so your tires won't rub when you exceed your stock angle, but I'm sure it could be easily modified to accomodate an increased angle and "tune out" the rubbing factor...
Hmm.. has me thinking.. and its an easier bolt on.. hmm..

-Kurt

[UP2MTNS]

Never really undestood that thing perrin sales until this morning (because of some recent ackerman angle research related to drift cars), but it actually brings one more item to the table, steering angle (hence why its used quite often on drift cars). It comes with a new hardstop for the rack so your tires won't rub when you exceed your stock angle, but I'm sure it could be easily modified to accomodate an increased angle and "tune out" the rubbing factor...
Hmm.. has me thinking.. and its an easier bolt on.. hmm..

-Kurt

yup, it does the same thing as the quick rack, except at the 'tire end' instead of the 'steering wheel' end.

increases mechanical advantage, but at the cost of steering weight....steering will be eavier.

Also, whether the Perrin parts are 'stage rally ready' is another question.

[kurt.]

Steering will always be heavier with any of the aforementioned mods, so that's not a big deal.
I wondered about the strength too, but there's nothing that says someone couldn't make the same thing out of chromoly or similiar.
Really cool product, thanks for adding it to the conversation.

-Kurt

[Gravel Crew Rally Team]

just an FYI, Perrin makes a product that does exactly this, if anyone's that interested.

Only good for 08-11 STi! :angryfinger:

[no1v2]

I put an 11.5:1 Q-Rack in my 2010 STI SE and the steering weight increase was pretty minimal. There is a difference but much less than the difference between 235/45R17 snow tires and 245/40R18 summer tires.

I've never used a column quickener though so I don't know how the weight compares.

I doubt the STI steering pump is much of an upgrade. It might not be different at all. I managed to boil my stock P/S fluid on a twisty mountain road with the stock rack. P/S never actually cut out but it was making very disturbing noises. I'd done a track day the day before but it was the twisty road that really seemed to put a beating on the P/S system. I'm guessing a P/S cooler is a must for this generation Impreza if you're rallying one.

[409industries]

I've got an L&E column waiting to be installed.

[lminette]

Yay! Love my L&E column!

[acco205]

I look forward to seeing the install on that one. I think I'd prefer the Q-rack but frankly I've got so far to go before I even think about either option so I'm sure I'll change my mind at least 30 times before then :jack: