98 wagon brake upgrade, information please

[yourripper]

Ok i went through the threads and i am pretty sure this isint a redo. Im looking about hitting a pull and pay for better brakes. im hoping i can find a turbo leggy for parts but if not i was planning on an OB. Now i have heard that i will need to get the proportioning valve from the donor car because brake bias is different with rear drums. But what i cant get a streight answer for (on rs25) is i was planning on grabbing a MC at the same time(i know i have to match, ABS with ABS and everything). but i also figured a bigger MC would make the brakes have more bite to them. My main question is, would the MC off of the turbo leggy or the OB be bigger then my OBS? or should i try for a SVX? or maybe just buy a new 02 WRX? Also, is the front disks better on a turbo leggy or OB? or possibly a fozzy front? I have some time but im trying to get a good list together before i have to go to NM so if i cant find anything here i would probably be able to get it at the yards down there. Any info/assistance would be greatly appreciated

[Subycoop2]

When are you coming to NM? I have no answers but I know the abq u-pull very well. It is rich in legacys and legacy outbacks. Be glad to help out.

Darin

[yourripper]

im not going that far. im heading back to farmington the 13th

[yourripper]

anyone have any experience with ebay rotor sets? after i do my swap i wanna get some slotted/drilled rotors and pads (and probably a caliper rebuild kit at some point) so my brake system is basically brand new. But i saw a couple kits like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUBARU-IMPREZA-98-01-Brake-ROTORS-PADS-SS-LINES-PKG-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZYearQ3a1998Q7cMakeQ3aSubar uQQhashZitem4cf7da93f7QQitemZ330575811575QQptZMoto rsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

or this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELINE-PERFORMANCE-DRILL-SLOT-Brake-Rotors-FRONT-REAR-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZYearQ3a1998Q7cMakeQ3aSubar uQQhashZitem5ae17120d3QQitemZ390329344211QQptZMoto rsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
and i was wondering if anyone had any info, thanks

[offcamber]

anyone have any experience with ebay rotor sets? after i do my swap i wanna get some slotted/drilled rotors and pads (and probably a caliper rebuild kit at some point) so my brake system is basically brand new. But i saw a couple kits like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUBARU-IMPREZA-98-01-Brake-ROTORS-PADS-SS-LINES-PKG-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZYearQ3a1998Q7cMakeQ3aSubar uQQhashZitem4cf7da93f7QQitemZ330575811575QQptZMoto rsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

or this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELINE-PERFORMANCE-DRILL-SLOT-Brake-Rotors-FRONT-REAR-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZYearQ3a1998Q7cMakeQ3aSubar uQQhashZitem5ae17120d3QQitemZ390329344211QQptZMoto rsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
and i was wondering if anyone had any info, thanks

no, nope, and fail...

slotted, drilled and dimpled rotors are not going to help your braking and will cost you more than better quality blank rotors from the local autoparts store. stay away from autozone as their stuff usually is sub par. i would buy only DOT name brand brake lines...

Unless you answered all of your questions from the original post you still have quite a bit of research to do before pulling anything from a junk yard. remember, you are attempting to outsmart an entire team of engineers when you mess with redoing your brakes. i have also failed to find concrete info to most all of your questions on rs25. for you, the real question is why do you want to upgrade your brakes in the first place? what kind of driving are you going to do? brake pads are 90% of what makes a good braking system.

I weighed 2000 RS abs, and 96 awd non-abs brakes and the rs caliper/bracket/rotor combo up front (per corner) was 3.75 lbs. heavier than the L caliper/bracket/rotor combo. the problem is i can't find axxis ult (ultimate), or hp+ pads for the L front rotors. then agian, my conversion to rs rear brakes will surely screw with the proportioning and so maybe metal master front, hp+ rear is the ticket. i definitely will be going rs disk in the rear so my conundrum (no pun intended) is how to balance the front. i highly doubt anyone needs anything bigger than RS brakes for a gc that isn't turboed, rallied, or road raced. i know Jay Storm's fsp autocross car rocked the stock brakes (including drum rear) so autocross does not = roadracing.

my car (2.2L) will be for autocross, track days, and rallycross. if you could dig through NASIOC for some answers to your original quesions i will do the same and then maybe we will come away with some answers. once i get my car built, i will make a huge post in the member journals section and simply reply to threads like this one with "refer to my journal". for now, my learning curve is steep and i will press on till to get some answers.

does anyone know for a fact that axxis ult's are not available for single pot fronts?

any prop valve charts that include drum brakes?

[yourripper]

disk brakes are easier to work on, work better IMO, more responsive, and look better with rims. Im actually looking at just doing Legacy/OB brakes bc i can get everything off of one donor vehicle and it will balance out (with the MC and prop valve made for that brake setup).

Im not trying to outsmart any engineers, but you also have to realize that not all cars made are the same off the lot. most OBS are drum because its cheaper to put them out without the RS brakes from the factory.

I would be perfectly happy with RS brakes, but as RSs are hard to come by in a junkyard, so are their brake setups. So Legacy/OB brake setup will be comparable to that and will be easier to get.

As for my driving, i can be pretty aggressive at times, and future prospects is to turbo my obs. Also i like to get out in the dirt so responsive brakes are very helpful

[offcamber]

As long as you get the MC and prop valve from the same car along with all four disk brakes then you should be fine. Driving in dirt requires less braking force than tarmac. what gives you grip in the dirt are tires. drive your new setup around for a bit and then use pads to fine tune your brake balance to your liking. then report back here to tell us what you found. It would be really cool if you left you OEM MC and prop valve in just to see what the car did on all four disks, and then change them out for the correct prop valve and MC. Testing different setups is the only real way to find what works best (ask any successful racer).

[yourripper]

i would, but i heard that a prop valve from a disk/drum setup makes the rear disks work weird (cant remember if its harder or softer) and technically im not suppost to work on vehicles at my apartment so i would have to change everything at once. i was also planning on getting some caliper rebuild kits so i can get the calipers running right (so i just have to take my car down once). basically i might have a full day to get everything swapped and to any troubleshooting in one day and i have to drive back to CS that evening.

As to the MC i was asking that on RS25 but got a couple people that didnt know or didnt want to give me a straight answer. I was planning on getting an SVX MC because they are bigger/stronger, but i can grab the one from the donor at the same time.

You said you dont like the rotors from Autozone, any reason why? I have always went to AZ in New Mexico for my auto parts and never had any problems with the parts i got from them. Where do you get your rotors?

also i was fully planning on taking some measurements (60-0, ect.) before and after and plenty of pictures.

[offcamber]

you are chancing it with working on your car way from your appt. unless you can leave the car wherever you work on it. if the lines don't match up to the prop valve you have to bend the brake lines with a special tool and possibly cut and flair the lines with a pricey tool(i think). i say just swap the calipers out and leave the MC and prop valve alone and see how it works for you. Unless you are hopelessly bad at driving you should be fine even if the balance is all messed up. If the prop. valve and MC connect to the lines in the same place then it miiiight be worth it to go ahead and do it then, but kinking when you try to bent them will realllly mess you up. there might also be some kind of dressing you need to put on the threads as well...not sure.

Autozone:
I have talked to repair shops and racers who generally know what they are talking about...

I go to O'reilly mostly because of their hours, and their parts are decent as long as you don't buy their lowest level stuff (one year warranty as opposed to lifetime).

Napa has good parts, and because they are a franchise, the people working there are usually way more knowledgeable than the other parts stores who hire anyone off the street with a basic understanding of how a car works.

[A1337STI]

I swapped 99 RS brake calipers onto my 93L (had drums) and i love my brake bias !! :)

pedal is a touch soft. i need a slightly bigger MC to have the old pedal feel. but its really good, i know on dirt i lock up the fronts just before the rears (even on a slight downhill)

:D

[offcamber]

I swapped 99 RS brake calipers onto my 93L (had drums) and i love my brake bias !! :)

pedal is a touch soft. i need a slightly bigger MC to have the old pedal feel. but its really good, i know on dirt i lock up the fronts just before the rears (even on a slight downhill)

:D

As in all four calipers from the RS?

how is the bias on tarmac?

How do you know the bigger MC will solve the soft pedal feel(i'm not very knowledgeable in that area)?

[yourripper]

How do you know the bigger MC will solve the soft pedal feel(i'm not very knowledgeable in that area)?

For one, i have read (couple threads on rs25, and on nasioc) that the disk brake caliper requires more fluid and more expansion to reach full brake hold then drum brakes do. If you think about it, drum brakes only have to push open a small +/- 2" cylinder, whereas a brake caliper has to move much more fluid onto a (between 1.5" to 2.5") piston to reach the same brake power.

for 2, I have to ask, why are you busting my chops about asking about ebay rotors, or "outsmarting subaru engineers" when you yourself said your "not very knowledgeable in that area"?

[offcamber]

for 2, I have to ask, why are you busting my chops about asking about ebay rotors, or "outsmarting subaru engineers" when you yourself said your "not very knowledgeable in that area"?

Sorry, i didn't mean to come across that way. I have a good understanding on what to look for and what to avoid when it comes to brakes, but there are some specific areas that i am not an expert and am willing to admit it.

ebay brake kit = knowledge

intricacies of re-plumbing brake lines = not so much

[offcamber]

have you done the swap yet? how do the brakes feel?

[A1337STI]

As in all four calipers from the RS?

how is the bias on tarmac?

How do you know the bigger MC will solve the soft pedal feel(i'm not very knowledgeable in that area)?

yes i did all 4 calipers from an RS.

I haven't done an autocross yet, but it feels fine, i think its more forward bias on tarmac than dirt. definitely no issues with controlling the car.

and I've had 2 mechanics tell me a bigger MC will solve the soft pedal issue. basically they said my newer brakes require more fluid volume than the old setup. and so now i have to push a bit further on the pedal to move that new bigger volume, the result is the pedal feels a bit soft. (though i can still lock the up) I've locked up all 4 in a rally and stalled (and slide off the road) :oops: downhill in the rain, 40% tread dry gravel tires for the loss.

also my GF locked up all 4 in a rally cross and stalled. I'm using porter field R4 pads (amazing!) with blank discs.

also an interesting side bit, i took all 4 corners off a 98 legacy outback i think it was for spare knuckles, and the brake calipers off that are almost identical to my RS calipers (the pads will fit inside on the rear, and i think maybe in the front)

[offcamber]

Are those the R4 race pads or the R4-S pads meant for the street (according to Porterfield). If they are the R4 pads, how long do they take to warm up and actually work? Are they scary on the street until they reach operating temp?