Best Car for Rallycross

[thejean]

We're having a debate over on a local forum as to what constitutes the best rallycross car... Just curious what your thoughts are? I seem to be alone in my thinking that it is easier to be smoother with a torquey little 2.5RS than a WRX or an STi. What are your guys' thoughts?

http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=19596.0

I really don't have a stake in this as I already have a stage rally car but I am trying to help steer folks in the right direction but for some reason, a lot of the guys seem to think a turbo car is the way to go, which I don't necessarily agree with.

JC

[subyRebirth]

i have 05 2.5 RS with KYB AGX shocks and 09 WRX hatch. And I need to sell one of them but in a future I would want to do some rallycross once in a while. So which one should i keep?:crazy:

[Goon310]

Sell your RS to me in six months. :mrgreen:

[thejean]

I should caveat by saying I was considering a GC8 RS, not a GD RS.

[Moby45]

I own a WRX and still would say that the 2.5RS would whoop up on it rallyx style.
They are super toruqey. I wonder why they stopped making them so tourquey?

[RSTi]

if your just doing rallycross for fun earlier imprezas are better for a few reasons.

a) they can be found dirt cheap with little-no work needed
b) spare parts are a plenty at local pick-n-pulls which means they're cheap to fix if you bend something or have a crazy off
c)alot of newer parts will bolt-up with litle-no work

so im all for a 2.5rs over a wrx/sti. only thing keeping me sticking with a 93-95 model is i already have a ej20k drivetrain ready to swap in and i need to pass emissions here in NY. lol

also river skill goes a long way. better to start with a less powerful car if you havent run many events so you get a feel of car control and the basics instead of going to an event with your new modded sti and realizing that there is a thing as too much entry speed

[Jard]

If budget is not considered, I'll take a stock '05 STi for SA class, please.

If buget is considered, of course a GC is going to be better.

[Cambo]

this is how i see it... "Run what you BRUNG!!!" i have a 06 WRX that i was planning to use but totaled it 2 days before the event (im re-building it) so i bought a 00 Honda Civic EX for my new DD and used that at the next event but couldnt race cuz i had plans on race day so i just did practice. no matter what you have its gonna be a good time 8)

[GIS_WRX]

I think this is the wrong forum to ask in...I mean who isn't expecting the majority of responses to be Subaru models? lol...asking this on special stage might bring in a bit more variety.

Anyways if I could rallycross anything...I think an VW R32 would be a great car to use.

[409industries]

I think this is the wrong forum to ask in...I mean who isn't expecting the majority of responses to be Subaru models? lol...asking this on special stage might bring in a bit more variety.

Good point.

Anyways if I could rallycross anything...I think an VW R32 would be a great car to use.

Yeah if money was no option right? Usually budget is always a concern because most guys i know are tight on money but want a cheap way to have fun... and thats rallycross.

So my vote would have to be for an 98-01 2.5RS. AWD, torquey, fun to drive, cheap parts.... with lots of aftermarket support.

[GIS_WRX]

If money matters then I would say a Civic. Cheap car, cheap parts, plenty of junkyard donors too lol.

[subyRebirth]

So 05 2.5RS is not as torquey as 98-01?

[lorenkb]

The best rallycross car is the one with the best nut behind the wheel. This becomes painfully evident when Burney in his Suzuki Swift mops up the majority of the field (including RS, WRX, and STi competitors).

[thejean]

Really asking between an NA rs and a turbo wrx or sti. That is why I posted here as many of you will have rallycrossed all three.

[Jard]

Modded - I'll take the RS
Stock - I'll take the STi

[Jard]

So 05 2.5RS is not as torquey as 98-01?

It is, but the 02+ cars weigh at least 300 lbs. more.

[Tommy Gun Rally]

I own a WRX and still would say that the 2.5RS would whoop up on it rallyx style.
They are super toruqey. I wonder why they stopped making them so tourquey?

They didn't, they increased the weight and size. If anything, the newer 2.5l engines are more efficient, not less.

Best all around rallycross in my experience, bone stock, would be a 2001 2.5RS coupe. LSD stock, tons of power, easily lightened, rabid aftermarket, great gearbox and ratios for rallyx, I could go on and on.

Throw in a nice front/center diff, rally tires on some lightweight wheels (NOT steelies), stiffer rear sway bar, a skidplate, and you're hard to beat.

Then again, a Nissan SER has many of these perks but obviously is only FWD - which some may argue makes it more nimble than other cars, most notably the Subarus which have a bit of understeer stock.

[m20sti]

heres a nice variable for you guys.

in canada we can get JDM wrx's... at our local event a JDM wrx has won 2008 and 2010 and a special one day event in the summer of 2010.

although the wrx has changed from this:(2008)
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/orangeladder_photo/Racing%20Pics/IMGA0998.jpg
to this:(2010)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/speedyvr6/IMG_9048.jpg

the summer series was won in a bone stock 92 wrx running gravels.

i thought i would throw that in... just for another option for you guys to play with. i know this is mostly US but the big debate for us is happening in canada haha.

also for a reference you can get a JDM wrx for between 5-9000 dollars depending on condition.

thanks

[pomspeed]

Of the Subie cars originally posted to pick from, the non turbo car works best for those getting started in rallycross, turbo cars get you into trouble faster. I've rallycrossed both an '02 WRX and an '04 STI. I've been more successful with the WRX. I'd love to try an RS with rally tires.

Lastly, the best car for rallycross.....the one that wins!:shocked:

Brent

subyRebirth, let me know when you want to rallycross, I/we organize them at Prairie City, woohoo!

[subyRebirth]

[QUOTEsubyRebirth, let me know when you want to rallycross, I/we organize them at Prairie City, woohoo![/QUOTE]

I want to go. But i got figure out what i want to do with my cars. Keep 05 RS or 09 WRX or sell both and 04 Tacoma and 01 2.5 RS for rallycross.
Thanks for invitation!

[p4R4d0x]

I personally have a GC RS and a GD WRX, and have rallycrossed both. I started the season in my WRX but it was taking a beating due to rough courses, and I didn't want to destroy my only car, that I'll be making payments on for quite a while, so I bought the RS. My times and overall performance improved dramatically and I feel much more confident ripping around courses in the RS. Sure, maybe it's because I'm less worried about breaking it because it's not my only car, or maybe its because the courses here can be on the technical side, but when driving the WRX I seem to spend a lot of time thinking 'oh come on!' waiting for the turbo to do it's job, whereas the RS just responds, with gobs of torque, when I get on the throttle. Maybe I just suck at driving a turbo car?

Cliffnotes: GC RS.

[thejean]

I personally have a GC RS and a GD WRX, and have rallycrossed both. I started the season in my WRX but it was taking a beating due to rough courses, and I didn't want to destroy my only car, that I'll be making payments on for quite a while, so I bought the RS. My times and overall performance improved dramatically and I feel much more confident ripping around courses in the RS. Sure, maybe it's because I'm less worried about breaking it because it's not my only car, or maybe its because the courses here can be on the technical side, but when driving the WRX I seem to spend a lot of time thinking 'oh come on!' waiting for the turbo to do it's job, whereas the RS just responds, with gobs of torque, when I get on the throttle. Maybe I just suck at driving a turbo car?

Cliffnotes: GC RS.

I don't believe you do. I had and still have the same struggles with my USDM WRX... your post is eerily similar to a post I made on SS some 4 or 5 years ago:

http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18260

And it's not like I don't know how to handle a car, as I recently won a regional rally here in my open class STI, beating out some stiff competition.

I TOTALLY concur with your assessment.

[subyRebirth]

It is, but the 02+ cars weigh at least 300 lbs. more.
i did some research and found out that 02-07 RS waits only 170 pounds more then 2001 2.5 RS

[thejean]

i did some research and found out that 02-07 RS waits only 170 pounds more then 2001 2.5 RS

I think the overhangs (front and rear) are greater and the center of gravity higher, making the GC chasis more nimble though. At least the few I've driven feel that way to me.

[subyRebirth]

a friend of mine building up his 01 2.5RS and he got him self STI block but he is going to use RS heads. He was telling me something about torque but i don't remember what exactly. If not mistaking that single overhead cams would provide more torque. Would something like that be better for rallycross on 01 2.5RS?

[thejean]

Lower profile/duration cams can increase TQ, yes, but they hurt HP.

[subyRebirth]

Lower profile/duration cams can increase TQ, yes, but they hurt HP.
So that would be better for rallycross?

[thejean]

So that would be better for rallycross?

Yup. TQ is king in rally. HP doesn't factor in as much.

[409industries]

So 05 2.5RS is not as torquey as 98-01?

This wasn't implied by my response, but its already been pointed out that the newer RS's are heavier. I still said GC 2.5RS because of the cheap parts, and cheap purchase price outright!

[Jard]

i did some research and found out that 02-07 RS waits only 170 pounds more then 2001 2.5 RS
Link to research?

[Moby45]

Wait....get a wagon!

[Cambo]

reguardless of the weight. you can always do some weight reduction but correct me if im wrong, your car must weigh 1.05 lbs per cc for P-GT class

*edit* sorry, this information is for RA, not Rallycross

[eage8]

Link to research?

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2001/subaru/impreza/100001731/specs.html
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/subaru/impreza/100002229/specs.html

'01 RS coupe: 2820 lbs
'02 RS sedan: 2965 lbs

145 lbs difference.

But every lbs counts. that's like driving around with a passanger all the time.

Another thing I haven't seen brought up is the GC is a skinnier car... skinnier = less turning it helps a decent amount in a slalom.

that being said there is a guy around us who from what I've heard was mid-pack in his GC RS and got an '04 STi and got first in class this season.

personally driving an '01 RS... the stis are hard to keep up with. If you get a good driver, an STi will be faster, especially in stock class. better diffs, better suspension and the obvious double the hp.

The only problem with the STi is that if you go into PA or M4 you can't run 15" rally tires without getting smaller brakes. which I'm not even sure is legal for PA

[Jard]

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2001/subaru/impreza/100001731/specs.html
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/subaru/impreza/100002229/specs.html

'01 RS coupe: 2820 lbs
'02 RS sedan: 2965 lbs

145 lbs difference.


Yep and then the '02 WRX is another 100 lbs. heavier than the '02 RS. 3085 I think.

[subyRebirth]

Link to research?

here is 05 2.5RS and 2001 2.5RS
05 is 3920LB
01 is 3750LB
difference 170LB would that be correct way to find out weight?

https://www.iaai.com/

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z434/Netvoe/7158317_9_I.jpg
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z434/Netvoe/7158317_1_I.jpg (http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z434/Netvoe/7158317_1_I.jpg)
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z434/Netvoe/6984045_9_I.jpg
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z434/Netvoe/6984045_2_I.jpg
(http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z434/Netvoe/6984045_2_I.jpg)

[lorenkb]

^^^ That's Gross Vehicle Weight, not the actual empty weight of the cars. A 4k lb impreza would be mighty slow :mrgreen:

[Jard]

Yeah, GVWR is the maximum amount of weight including the car and passengers + cargo you are allowed to carry. :)

[RallyTaco]

The only problem with the STi is that if you go into PA or M4 you can't run 15" rally tires without getting smaller brakes. which I'm not even sure is legal for PA

Snipped from the rx rules. Brakes are free in prepared.

D. Rally Prepared Category...

1. All Rally Stock category modifications are allowed.
2. Any sway bars and their mounting may be used or removed.
3. Any brakes may be used...

[noisycricket]

IIRC, the rule is specifically written that way so that STI and Evo owners can install smaller brakes so they can use rally tires.

I love anything involving STI and Evo with respect to the rules. Half of the people talking (non owners) will complain that it's unfair that those cars are in their class, while the other half (owners) complain that it's unfair that their cars have to use substandard tires.

It's a riot.

From the outside of the fence, STi owners need every bit of help they can to compete against 2.5RSs. I find it endlessly amusing that the universally accepted way to set up (what should be) the awesome computer-controlled diff (so good it's banned in WRC) is to lock it out entirely...

[whitney]

Best rallycross car I have competed in is my 97 OBS wagon with a high compression 2.5l engine and cams. Torque puts the 2.5RS to shame :)

Oh and it's for sale, if I can ever figure out how to post in the classifieds section!

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CTkxRGgH9Qs/R-mplyKuRWI/AAAAAAAAHsY/b0xjUvcd_50/s800/Copy%20of%202008_0202FreezeYourLugNutsOff014.jpg

[slowautoxr]

I've been pondering lately about getting an Impreza. I currently RallyCross - well I did till the RX-7 quit running. I'm trying to figure out which one is the best one to get. First of all I'm looking for something stock and something less than $6k.

I'd really like to find something that came with 14" or 15" wheels from the factory.
Definitely a LSD.

Currently I think I should be looking for a '98-01 2.5RS but I'm not sure about the wheel size. Tirerack says 16" wheels are stock but there are options for other sizes - including 15".
Other than the # of doors, is there any difference between the sedan and the coupe?
Anything in particular I need to look out for on this particular model?

[pomspeed]

Going over to the dark side ehh? Shouldn't be too hard to find for the price, but 14"-15" are less common on newer cars. You can easily find mid-late 90's subies with that size wheel, but the LSD might be less common. I believe all RS versions came with 16's but non RS's Imprezas were available with smaller, which than makes stock not possible. Probably best best is see what came with 15's and 2.2L motor.

Now maybe someone will chime in to verify if I got any info right, hehehe.

Good luck,
Brent

[katnip]

I've rx'd an 01 RS coupe and an 04 STi. RS was WAYYYYYY better.

ran the RS for 4 or 5 seasons and I miss it. I find the STi has way more power than one needs for rallyx and there is no good aftermarket suspension solution that isn't a coilover set up which = $$$$$$$

or find a cheap golf or jetta to run. FWD is fun and the parts for those are a dime a dozen.

[RSTi]

^FWD cars can also be very fast. Ive only been to two rallyx's and both were dominated by a FWD vehicle where one won by close to 23 seconds overall and the other would have won by 19.2 if it werent for a missed gate in his first run. everyone says learn how to drive in a FWD car as many of the techniques transfer over to AWD.

[rallyknight13]

Best rallycross car I have competed in is my 97 OBS wagon with a high compression 2.5l engine and cams. Torque puts the 2.5RS to shame :)

Oh and it's for sale, if I can ever figure out how to post in the classifieds section!

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CTkxRGgH9Qs/R-mplyKuRWI/AAAAAAAAHsY/b0xjUvcd_50/s800/Copy%20of%202008_0202FreezeYourLugNutsOff014.jpg

2000 OBS with 2.5RS head / cams / Custom manifold / 04 WRX 5spd 4.11:1 gears and a Phantom LSD in the back !
Get some05 WRX KYB AGX shocks and stock 05 OBS springs !

Run it !

[SoCalBoomer]

^FWD cars can also be very fast. Ive only been to two rallyx's and both were dominated by a FWD vehicle where one won by close to 23 seconds overall and the other would have won by 19.2 if it werent for a missed gate in his first run. everyone says learn how to drive in a FWD car as many of the techniques transfer over to AWD.

This!

It's a BLAST driving FWD in rallycross. Lot less foot-dancing. Start your turn, keep foot on the throttle, stab the brake to kick the back around, drag to set the angle, and go. (simplification, but. . . :D)

Taking NOTHING away from AWD. . . :headbang:

[idriveasaab]

I'm going to try and avoid my bias in saying classic 900 saab if your on a budget so i'd have to say for a cheap rallyx car the crx does a pretty good job but you can't find them. if budget means nothing then a wrx swapped 2 door rs would be primo imo.

And i love rallying fwd cars, my saabs have always run very good times

[SoCalBoomer]

Yeah - CRX is good, but I'd actually recommend a full hatch - it's amazing how much you can pack into those things to go to a race!!! :D All of your support stuff, set of tires, tarp, chairs, plus BIG cooler with lots of food/drink. . . They drive really close to the same (hatch has a bit more weight back end) . . .

Neon is also really good in FWD.

Would be awesome to see your Saab running! :D

[Lincx]

Well i own and have raced both...
93 2.0 NA and 94 WRX....
On more technical course i was lot faster in NA car.. (we run events on snow only - and thats why with wrx there is just turbo lag or wheelspin all the time when in boost)....
However on this real straight, fast and very wide track - WRX was LOT faster....
Also if on gravel - i think WRX would be faster.....
So i would go with NA for technical, narrow tracks
and WRX for fast, flowing, wide tracks.....

[pjhe]

mazda parts bin special
bg chassis 323, fwd
mazda bpt turboed 1.8l engine
mazdaspeed protege limited slip
and kia sephia axles

everything cost less then 3k and you can strip the car down to under 2100lb and put down 240+ hp with bolt on mods

[shakes]

My first rally-x was in my old STi. I pulled up to sign my waiver form and was met by a nice dude that really knows his stuff about off roading Subarus. The introduction went something like this...

Him: Welcome! Oh, its really an STi. Thats too bad.
Me: Huh? Why?
Him: Too much torque for your tires. Should be fun though.
Me: Um....


He was so damn right. For two seasons I got spanked by old dudes in cars like an MR2, suzuki suv, any number of 2.5rs' and rental cars. I had a BLAST but I wasn't competitive.

Take whatever you can get and just go race. Nothing can replace experience.

[A1337STI]

My GF who just started racing this year, has raced in my 05 STI (29mm front sway, custom cat back, eating 1 QT of oil per tank of gas) and my 01 RS (Delta cams, OBX front diff, JVAB coil overs, rally tires, rest is stock)

She feels the STI is easier to rally cross, and she seems to be faster in the STI.
It sorta depends on the course that has been made, most of the courses I've ran this year i think the RS is faster on. there's been a few courses where i would have greatly preferred my STI. I find with proper brake spooling the advantage of the older RS gearing and low end TQ is largely negated.

Guess it depends which class you are talking about. stock, I'de pick STI. soon as you can do a driveline swap , I'de go GC (with an sti power train)

FWD , the best car i've seen is the damn nissan sentra SE-R spec V (comes stock with a helical front diff, and a 6 speed, and 200 ish HP ) it has a bit of limited rear suspension travel but its not much of an issue in rallyx. the ford focus SVT is very siick , but open front diff so needs to be in a class where diffs are free.
Burneys creation is a sick M2 car (geo prism shell , ??? inside)
for RWD. I'de say an older BMW, or a 510

[SoCalBoomer]

Burneys creation is a sick M2 car (geo prism shell , ??? inside)

It's 3 hamsters. . .

[Conechaser]

I'm having fun in a 2003 WRX. Did OK in it in SA at Nationals this year even though we were the only bugeye in the class.

[Whizbang Rally]

dodge neon R/T in two wheel drive.

or anything that runs when you start it.

[Conechaser]

dodge neon R/T in two wheel drive.

or anything that runs when you start it.

An ACR comes adjustable Koni shocks in Stock class where the R/T doesn't.

[Whizbang Rally]

honestly, the adjustable konis mean about jack crap on the dirt considering the range they adjust isnt noticeable. For autox, sure why not. But autox is lame.

[noisycricket]

This!

It's a BLAST driving FWD in rallycross.

Not as much as RWD. :headbang:

[SoCalBoomer]

It's a matter of taste! :D

@Conechaser - I pulled my Konis (on the rear) and replaced them with craptastic Monroes because they're far softer and have gotten much better results. Konis are adjustable but their softest setting is still harder than "stock" KYB or Monroes or whatever. .. and I'm not recommending Monroe, they were just the cheapest replacements I could find! LOL

[shakes]

It's a matter of taste! :D

@Conechaser - I pulled my Konis (on the rear) and replaced them with craptastic Monroes because they're far softer and have gotten much better results. Konis are adjustable but their softest setting is still harder than "stock" KYB or Monroes or whatever. .. and I'm not recommending Monroe, they were just the cheapest replacements I could find! LOL

You didn't do too damn bad with that neon either.

[I Like It Sideways]

Neons have been proven time and time again to be fast on loose surfaces. Another +1 from me on Neons!

[SoCalBoomer]

Why thank'ee!

And since I just married a lady who a: likes beer, b: instructs me that it's time to brew beer, c: likes off-road racing, d: instructs me that we will be racing that Neon . . . I think we'll be back! With some homebrew to boot!

:cheers: :rally-driver:

[SoCalBoomer]

Oh - the HB would be for the evening before. . . just for clarification! :D

[Conechaser]

Why thank'ee!

And since I just married a lady who a: likes beer, b: instructs me that it's time to brew beer, c: likes off-road racing, d: instructs me that we will be racing that Neon . . . I think we'll be back! With some homebrew to boot!

:cheers: :rally-driver:

My neon worked pretty good for me as well.

[Icanfixit]

Going to be a bit bias, I like hyundai's. Very cheap but are pretty reliable, and plenty around for a good price. I took my tiburon to a rallycross, and my father and I rip the car a new one and it held up great. My car lacks hp but has good torque numbers.

Nevermind my sig :P

[rallyxcrx]

The one with the fastest driver. Dave

[legacymax]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the follow:
1)Mitsubishi EVO-great power and 12:1 steering rack. quite awesome with a brake downgrade and rally tires.
2)06-07 WRX. great brakes, great power and high first gear which is a good thing in our rallycrosses in Colorado.

My 3.0L GM is a pretty nice little torque monster if I say so myself. :eyebrows:

[noisycricket]

2)06-07 WRX. great brakes, great power and high first gear which is a good thing in our rallycrosses in Colorado.


But turbo lag. Also, one of the best things I did to my car was gear it down AND run shorter tires. 2nd gear tops out at about 45mph. I'm shifting into 3rd even on short tight courses. I run into the powerband three times instead of just one. This with an engine that has more of a torque "flat" than a torque peak.

[legacymax]

But turbo lag. Also, one of the best things I did to my car was gear it down AND run shorter tires. 2nd gear tops out at about 45mph. I'm shifting into 3rd even on short tight courses. I run into the powerband three times instead of just one. This with an engine that has more of a torque "flat" than a torque peak.

not much turbo lag with a 2.5L and a td04. Less than an STi and much less than a 2.0 WRX. It depends what kinds of courses are run in each area. For 50-75% of a common course in our area a wrx can sit in first and not every have to shift where as I, with my 4.11 trans, am either on the rev limiter and the wrx is moving at 4mph fast than me or low in 2nd. between the shift and not being in the powerband 3 to 4 times a run can add up to a second or more a run pretty easily.

[LGT-FST]

How about a red evo ix rs? Does 42 in first gear, has limited slip in the rear and front, has very little lag with the hairdrier so close to the head. When set up to prepared rules it can cover the m4 class. If one was to gut one and get it done to 2600 lbs we may as well all go home. :eek: LOR

[A1337STI]

if you learn to brake-spool, turbo lag isn't an issue :) brake wear will be an issue, but not turbo lag.

After a good season of rallyx my rear brake pads were worn out, but my fronts had 60% left... lol . as the 05 STI opens up the center when you brake-spool as the rear brakes are weaker you can end up with rear tires which are spinning 5-10mph faster than you are going but fronts that travel at the correct speed. which = massive rear brake wear, but turbo lag was not an issue. :)

Of course not everyone has 2 feet, so this only works for 99% of us

[Conechaser]

How about a red evo ix rs? Does 42 in first gear, has limited slip in the rear and front, has very little lag with the hairdrier so close to the head. When set up to prepared rules it can cover the m4 class. If one was to gut one and get it done to 2600 lbs we may as well all go home. :eek: LOR

Do it and I'll co-drive it with you at Nationals next year.

Our SA 2003 WRX was able to run both Saturday courses at Nationals this year in 1st gear. Only brushed the rev limiter in one place in the morning other than the run to the end where we grabbed 2nd gear. I had the fastest single run of all SA cars and only Kubo beat me on his last run in PA. Never got near the rev limiter in the afternoon. On Sunday we needed 2nd gear for the run thru the curving walls up to the lollypop. Down to 1st for that, then we held 1st for the rest of the course. We could have gone to 2nd after the offsets on the gravel going up to the twin 90's before the second loop, but I didn't want to risk a bad down shift for going into the loop. I was also more concerned about being clean than turning the fastest time by that point. (though I did have the second quickest time for our group on my last run)

[LGT-FST]

I did set the fastest time on all three runs on sunday and they were all clean. Sat am was first gear till the end then second. Sat pm was all first. Sunday was all done in first gear, did hit the limiter on the gravel before the left. Next year I want to bring my Evo and run 17" snow tyres in the prep class. Did anyone run a non rally or non snow tyre and do well? Can't wait for next years big one. LOR

[noisycricket]

How about a red evo ix rs? Does 42 in first gear, has limited slip in the rear and front, has very little lag with the hairdrier so close to the head. When set up to prepared rules it can cover the m4 class. If one was to gut one and get it done to 2600 lbs we may as well all go home. :eek: LOR

I'm not convinced that extreme weight-shaving is a GOOD thing, if you're not also removing weight from the suspension. The more you remove sprung weight, the worse the sprung/unsprung ratio is, which makes it harder for the suspension to keep the tires on the ground where they should be.

An extreme example are sand rails/dune buggy type vehicles. When run on a rallycross course, they tend to be the SLOWEST cars out there, despite also being the lightest. Just can't handle the roughness. They are downright comical to watch, though, if it's at all muddy. Driver comes back completely brown, with a few clean stripes where the harness was :)

I DO plan on pulling weight out of the RX-7 this winter, but the weight coming out will almost all be unsprung weight. Now if only I could find solid rotors for the thing, then I'd really be in business!

Miind you this: My car was the top dog RWD at nationals. It also has a full interior minus the carpeting, because the carpeting just serves to attract dust and stink after a while. I have heat and a full dashboard and a stereo and power windows and everything :) Daily driving a car without all that stuff just plain sucks, so it's never going to get all gutted for what I feel will be a negligible gain.

But it IS interesting to see that I was getting more speed in the RX-7 than you were getting in the Evo, if you were keeping it under 42mph on the Sunday course. My gearing had 2nd good for ~52mph with the tires I was on, and I was running into the limiter a few times. Tried to get 3rd and, well, that didn't work out. Now with the shorter tires, the car accelerates much harder (live and learn!) and I'm training myself to not botch the 2-3 shift so often. So far so good! Another part of the "fix" will be the engine that will be able to tolerate 10k instead of being limited to only 8000. Last year's engine would see 9500 on-course and it sounds glorious :D

Gearing is ESSENTIAL. It's how my slugmobile VW does so well despite being about 3200lb and maybe 100hp. I'm halfway through 3rd gear to go 45mph! It's never not in the powerband... should be fun with the turbomotor next year and ~150hp more to play with, I might be able to use 4th at a rallycross! :D