Tarmac Tires?

[erik*a]

Anyone have some good 16 recommendations for a Tarmac tire (For Rally NY USA) Predicting 40's low/60's high likely rain- pretty smooth roads with some dirt and rocks kicked up...

My car is fwd- not sure if that plays in- but I cannot spend a ton-

thanks!

[Tbagger]

hey Erika!

I'll be bringing three sets of tires. We're hoping for sunny and dry weather but you never know with RNY. Our sticky tires are BFGoodrich rally tarmac tires, they're pricy. Our back up set will be Dunlop Star Spec z1's. I've had great success for a street tire in competition. I ran them for the last two years on hillclimbs and they keep getting stickier as they get more worn. They handle the chilly side of the temprature pretty well too! They're resonibly priced and not outrageous like a DOT Rcomp tire or a RE11 type performance tire. You can look at Falken RT-16's too but I don't like them at all. They get very mushy and slick when they get hot.

If you're looking for sticky tires that will perform well if the rain decides to show up I'd look at the star spec z1 by dunlop first.

Tire rack has them for 127/each to give you an idea on price

The Bridgeston RE11 is about $30/each more

You can check out yokohama advan ADO8 too but those are $$ for a street performance tire...

I might bring some all seasons too if it looks like it's going to be a mess like last year.

[dirty]

Our sticky tires are BFGoodrich rally tarmac tires

Baller!!!

I don't think we'll be running on the Falkens. The Dunlops look nice, you said you had a lot of time on them?


J.

[Dirty D]

Also heard good things about the Dunlops. Has anyone tried the new Hankook RS-3's yet? Those might be another option.

[erik*a]

Thanks guys-

I have a friend with a used set of 185/60R15 A036 Yokohama Tarmac Rally Tires- That I will try to pick up for backup-
And a set of 16 Dunlops would be a good addition.

[Tbagger]

J- I have a bunch of time on the z1's. Probably 5 auto-x's and close to 6 hillclimbs. They have a little over one wear bar left on the tread and they are stickier then when I first bought them. Fantastic tire for the money!

[Daniel B]

Having driven a FWD Impreza on proper go-cart tracks in the pouring rain, I'd recomend OEM GD STi take-off tires. I got two sets of REO90's (I think) for $125. They had more than half tread left and they worked fine getting all of that 120hp to the ground. Most importantly, they were very predictable. The 17" wheels did slow the beast down though...

Also, lots of cars had gone off and pulled mud onto the track, it was not an issue, still completely predictable traction.

EDIT:
These suckers work perfect

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr78/123124125/for%20sale/bbs1.jpg

[erik*a]

Wow that is impressive! To me more impressed with your driving but ok I will trust your tires had a little to with it... I think I will do 16's and 15's- but 17's def look cool!

[A1337STI]

Dunlop Star Spec z1's are a great tire, also look at the Azena 615 , and the BrigeStone RE01Rs think now replaced by the RE-11s

Use the SMALLEST rims that fit over your brakes and from there use the Widest tires in the lowest sidewall that fit with out bulging (don't go out of the tire recommended rim widths) Unless you are switching over to way stiffer springs and lots of negative camber you won't be setup to take advantage of Epically wide tires (315s) to need 17" rims if you are just gonna by like a 205 or 225, you should be able to find that in a 15
(maybe 14) which is gonna reduce rotational mass , and increase both braking and acceleration.

potenza Re11

$97.00 (ea.) 205/50R15 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE-11&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=05VR5RE11&tab=Sizes)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE-11

195/60R14 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Direzza+Sport+Z1+Star+Spec&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=96HR4Z1SS&tab=Sizes) 96$ http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Direzza+Sport+Z1+Star+Spec

205/50R15 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Ecsta+XS&sidewall=&partnum=05WR5EXS&tab=Specs) 95$ http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Ecsta+XS
wow they have a 265/45R16 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Ecsta+XS&sidewall=&partnum=645WR6EXS&tab=Specs) Tire! just borrow someone's wrx Rims

Remember don't believe the Hype, Believe the math!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/3/0/6/3061496b5a9a640bfd46bc9413414ddc.pngnotice the R^2 so its exponentially bad to increase your radius compared to the mass .

Also going with short tires will lower your car with out screwing up your suspension geometry , thus lowering your center of gravity and reducing your roll center (less body roll)

and it will improve your gearing. its much better to ride your rev limiter for 5-10 seconds on the longest straight away, then to never get into 5th gear. :) (hopefully your options aren't so drastic)

you can pick up 14" steelie rims for ~~ $50 for 4 at a pick and pocket / maybe $100 at a dismantler / used rim shop maybe cheaper by asking around on DIRTYIMP

[erik*a]

Well I won’t be able to rock any 14’s bc I have wrx brakes front & rear- But I am hopefully picking up some 15” tires for my gravel wheels from my favorite friend Travis Hanson- he only 4 Yokohamas-

And

I was going to buy some 4 of the Dunlops for my stock alloys on my daily driver (16’s)- I still haven’t ordered anything yet- Luckily these are at Tire Rack so they will ship quickly! But my gravel wheels will be much lighter- so I could order another 4 15's too...

At the winter (solid ice) event I had a really hard time starting off the line. There was no grip what so ever. I stalled it once trying to start so slowly… Will a larger wheel help with grip? I assume I won’t have this problem on the tarmac surface-

[A1337STI]

No , Overall Diameter doesn't change your grip situation much at all.

Weight of car, & tire pressure determine your "foot print" (you can actually weight a car with a ruler and a tire pressure gauge ...)

my car is 1400 up front 700 a corner, @ 30 psi = 23 square inches (like a 6.4 X3.6 patch) and how hard is it pushing down on the road? uhm 30 psi (magic huh?)
Tire width plays into this as it changes the shape of the rectangle of contact area a wider tire with the same psi will have a wider rectangle that doesn't have as much length ..

how does this effect your traction.. *speculating* i dunno but i would think a wide rectangle with out much length would be better for lateral forces (cornering) but not as good for acceleration / braking but a skinny tire is going to have its rectangle more of a square , which i would assume will be better for icey , muddy, snowy starts.

For ice I've been told you want your tires to push harder against the surface so raising your tire pressure is gonna help. I've done this with both my cars for winter (i live in tahoe, .. i see like 20-30 FEET of snow per winter)

But there is going to be diminishing returns doing this. while 40 is going to be lots better than 20, 100 won't be better than 40 (nor will your tires like that)

you can (hopefully) find an icy patch of road somewhere and go and do some tire pressure testing. do like 3-5 launches at 25 psi and see how long it takes to to go 100 yards. bump tires up to 30 psi and repeat. once you have found your best number maybe go back and repeat with 2.5 or 2 psi increments.

I've actually never gone and tested this, i've bumped up my tires once thought it "felt" better and left it that way for all of winter (wore my tires down more in the center than the edges )

if you find that a lower pressure works best you may need to repeat your test while turning, as too little pressure allows the tire to deform while cornering , compressing the outside tire drastically (which at a point deforms the contact patch to be only the outside of the tire) and it creates body roll, when then puts your outside tire at a positive camber (bad bad bad)

sometimes you need to make trade offs. @ gorman last year i drove to the event and had no spare tires, so i intentionally put my tires @ 36 fr, 34 rear psi (about 6 too high) but i knew it would give me some added Rim protection for rocks i would hit.

Nailed a rock about the size of a BIG Fist, @ 50 -55 mph , only a tiny ding on my rim. @ 28 psi the ding would have been bigger for sure .

lmk if you do some testing i'de love to see some results I'll share my sway bar testing when i get the chance to do so. :)

[erik*a]

So I snagged a set (4) of used Dunlop z1s- they are the 205-55-16- Got em for $250 so I am taking what I can get. Also noting that I am a beginner at rally and have little experience on tarmac. So I think I will use my DD wheels/tires as spares- they are all season. I am testing out my settings at a autoX this weekend and will let you know how it goes. Any suspension or sway bar ideas. I am kind of winging it and just listening to the guys at Broken. But they are not fwd'ers...

Thanks!

[A1337STI]

17-20mm front, 13 mm rear

use more negative camber than you would on a gravel event, maybe -1 more so something like -2.2up front and -1.8 in the rear / -2 front -1.5 rear Imprezas on pavement like a lot of neg up front. :)

Definitely go and get an alignment before the event, you don't want to try 80 mph corners and have something wonky going on.