Rallycross car mods good, bad, all

[pomspeed]

Hello I'm compiling data regarding what mods people have done to their rallycross cars (only). It doesn't matter which class, I'm just curious what people have done and list which class you compete in.

For example:
car-'04 STi in SA
mods-cat back exhaust, no front sway bar, Bridgestone Blizzaks.

Staying on topic will be very helpful for compiling the data.

Thanks for your time,

Brent

[573]

car: 2007 WRX wagon
class: M4

mods:
turboback exhaust
STi intercooler
tgv deletes
22mm rear sway bar(on soft setting, so like 20mm)
short shifter+bushings
dunlop wintersport 3d's

[strat]

car: 2002 wrx sedan
class: M4

mods:
catless 3" turboback exhaust
turboxs up pipe
stage II opensource reflash w/ launch control
pirelli soft compound rally tires on 15" steelies
2.5i front brakes (to clear steelies)
Kartboy short shifter/shifter stays front and rear
stock struts/springs/sways
ebay strut tower braces
group n trans mount
Primitive skid plate
Subaru genuine parts rear diff protector

[pomspeed]

Hello I'm compiling data regarding what mods people have done to their rallycross cars (only). It doesn't matter which class, I'm just curious what people have done and list which class you compete in.

For example:
car-'04 STi in SA
mods-cat back exhaust, no front sway bar, Bridgestone Blizzaks.

Staying on topic will be very helpful for compiling the data.

Thanks for your time,

Brent

[Fidelity101]

Tires are probably your best mod for RallyX IMHO.

[Rally OBXT]

Car:
2000 Subaru 2.5RS

Mods:
Full exhaust --> EL headers, high flow cat, cat back
K+N Panel filter
KYB AGX struts + STI springs

That's it!! :waving:

Oh yeah, I run rally tires and compete in CRS rally 4 Class and SCCA Mod 4 class

[lminette]

Car 2000 2.5RS

Mods:
Snorkus Delete
K&N Panel Filter
NGK Iridium Plugs
Lightweight Crank Pully and Flywheel
Full Exhaust-Headers, track pipe, Greddy Evo2 catback
Whiteline 22mm-25mm adjustable rear sway bar
Cusco 22mm front sway bar
Front and rear strut tower bars
Whiteline heavy duty endlinks and bushings
L and E Fabrication quick column
KYB AGX Struts with Outback Sport Springs
Team Dynamics w/ Silverstone Rally Tires
Gutted interior

I ran Street Mod 4 in 2008 with this setup minus the rally tires and took 1st place. This year I'm running Rally 4 and hopefully finishing the rally build.

Future mods:
DMS 40mm struts w/HR springs rebuilt by Feal Suspension

Custom Rally Roll Cage (manufactured by ?)

Rebuilt 2.5L with high compression pistons, cams, and head work.

Should be a fun year!!

Have fun!!

[UP2MTNS]

is this mods you HAVE....or for mods you've done specifically for rally cross?

Obviously I haven a fully build engine, but that has little to do with rally cross.


The only 'rally cross specific' mods I've ever bought were snow tires, L&E steering column quickener, and skidplate.

[kemikalembalance]

i destroyed the whiteline endlinks inside of 1k miles. and i was only on dirt alittle bit of the time. 409 told me to try perrin ends. ya might look into them. and i love whiteline parts, too. but it was an expensive mistake....endlinks anyway.

[Azewaldo]

Car: '02 WRX wagon
Class: M4
Tires: Pirelli P6 Four-Seasons
Mod: 20mm rear anti-sway bar (OEM part from a WRX sedan, up from the 17mm wagon part).

[lminette]

I've been runnin my Whitelines for almost two years rompin the everlovin piss out of em and so far so good! Mine are the heavyduty aluminum ones not the wire looking ones but thanks for the advice all the same!

[sniper1rfa]

heh

Car: '07 2.5i wagon
class: M4
Tires: no longer have any, going to get gravel tires.
Mods:

d-spec coilovers
camber/caster plates, solid rear topmounts
20mm STi rear sway (too big)
spherical endlinks
STi suspension links all around
groupN suspension bushes all around
Q-rack 11.5:1 steering rack w/ solid mounts
6061 aluminum skidplate


And a lot of other stuff not useful for rallyx

[Ty Ty]

Figured I would repost this in this thread...you should probably merge all of your 4 or 5 threads into one.


1989 Audi 90q 4m

Mods:
Bilstein HD strut inserts
Aluminium subframe mounts
Delrin Engine, transmission, and rear diff mounts
Poly rear diff pitch mount
Poly front CA bushings and delrin rear CA bushings
replaced stock rotors with Brembo OE rotors and Hawk ceramic pads
JHM solid short shift assembly
2.25" straight through exhaust
500w RS2 cooling fan
Gutted interior With Sparco Rev driver seat

Tyres:
Yokohama a035 gravels
Cooper Weathermaster ST2 snows
Nokian Hakka 1 custom cut "mud" tyres
Hankook k106 streeters (for the once a year NER "doublecross" event)

Protection:
ex-paladin rally 1/4" skidplate
UHMW suspension guards
spray on truck-bed liner on rockers and lower 1/2 of doors

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2697/4375533139_aeb8bb78f5_b.jpg

[Gnome]

Snow tires. Skidplate. Sway bars. Rs springs.

[pomspeed]

Thanks guys. The reason why I'm wanting to do all of this is to find out why some many don't come back to rallycross. As an organizer understanding how or why this happens and trying to find ways to grow this sport is the purpose. Posting in all the different regions makes compiling the data easier, since not everyones location states where they are from, but regionally, close enough.

So I got Aarons approval to do this. Now the threads have been moved and it makes it look uselessly redundant to have posted the same thing 3 times in rallycross prep. (Which I didn't do)

Data wise NER had a National Challenge with more in one class than some programs get in total, but that was only regional, NC competitor count was about half that. Oregon has the same scenario. Reasons why people can't do both days vary.

Tyler, thanks for your info, get the other NEsters to post you guys get huge numbers at your events, maybe I should just move east, nah, too cold.

Brent

[rollo]

Just have people post their region in the reply. Same effect, one thread. Out of interest, how do rallycross-specific mods affect whether people come back?

FYI we just had 42 cars registered at Ridgecrest. That's not bad at all.

[573]

On the 20th, there were 55 people competing in the event I was at. That's the detroit region record.

[pomspeed]

pm sent rollo

[pigpen]

Out of interest, how do rallycross-specific mods affect whether people come back?

i don't understand this either.

car 1: 2000 LGT (was SA until someone complained that the 15x6's I had were stock on Legacy L's, not GTs...I guess the regulars don't like getting beaten by newcomers in slower cars :unamused:)
mods: front/rear skids, winterforce tires, mildly upgraded clutch, group N engine and tranny mounts
why it hasn't been back to a rallyX for a while: I fail as a mechanic, and after a couple of days struggling to fix things and breaking others in the process, I was ordered to move my car off the street (it was fully back together each night), at which point I broke more things and lost all motivation for a while. I do plan to rallyX it again when I get it back together.

car 2: 2005 STi (PA or whatever is one step up to allow for my suspension)
mods for rallycross: mud flaps and my winter tires
other mods: coilovers, brake pads and ducts, upgrades to other little things that have broken on track
why it hasn't been to a rallycross in a while: I only rallycross this car on very flat courses. it is a ton of fun, but I don't want to end up missing a bunch of track days (20-25 per year) due to something breaking at a rallycross where I am just there for fun with no real hopes of being competitive. unfortunately, the local event that was flat hasn't happened for over a year, so the only other place I have run is about 5 hours away.

[UP2MTNS]

i don't understand this either.


me neither, Brent...what the heck you doing here? 8)

[LGT-FST]

01 Audi A4 aka the Terminator. Car is gutted with two sparco seats, weight 2800 lbs. Bilstein hd's with s4 springs, stiffens ride and raise ride ht 3/4". k04 turbo, bigger injectors, larger intake plumbing with cone filter. Boost is turned down to 19 lbs. No cat 2 1/2' exhaust with one muffler. 15" Audi aluminum wheels with a large assortment of rubber mounted. A large wing on the trunk for bling. Car runs in m4 in NER and select national events. The best mod is lots of seat time. :eek: LOR

[Fidelity101]

car-'99 Audi A4 Avant (wagon) in SA
Mods: none

car-86' Mazda Rx7
Mods: LSD, ported motor, ported manifold, ported throttle body, megasquirt(within a few days), Kumho R700 Hard Gravel Tires, K&N intake filter, racing beat street exhaust, weight reduction, e-fans, aluminum flywheel, shorter gear'd trans, solid motor and transmission mounts.

[MarkA]

me neither, Brent...what the heck you doing here? 8)

Ditto.

But...

Previous cars:
WRX Wagon (CRS SS4, no SCCA rules back then) = nothing

95 Ford Probe (CRS R2, SCCA RM2) = removed back half of interior, rally tires/wheels, rear strut brace, added Corbeau FX1 race seat, $2 Ebay fart can exhaust. Most fun I had in RallyX - a car you hate, at least a little, is required to be fast and have fun, IMO. Got to be too many hours of work just to get it to an event and keep it running. Finally blew up on the freeway.

06 Nissan Sentra SER (CRS R2, SCCA RP2) = moved seat to that car, rally tires, $2 Ebay fart can. Axed due to it's propensity to corner on two wheels...

08 Nissan Sentra SER (CRS SS2, SCCA SF) = nothing, electronic throttle rendered the car too temperamental to use but it was at least fast when the course was dry.

Current car: 06 Ford Focus (SCCA SF) = Nothing and having fun again.

[A1337STI]

Region : Northern California

car #1: 2005 STI
class: M4 (Scca stock)
mods:27-29 Front sway bar
Catback exhaust
Tires: dunlop wintersport M3s / Good year Eagle GTs / General Altimax Arctic (http://www.dirtyimpreza.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=General&tireModel=Altimax+Arctic)

Car #2: 1993 Impreza base
Class: R2
Mods: Ksport Gravel coil overs
OBX Limited Slip differential
Rally Legal Roll Cage
MoMo T-club racing seats with 5 point pryotect harnesses
Full custom exhaust with hi-flow Cat (After stock exhaust manifold)
Intake Silencer Delete
Primitive Racing Skid Plate
Primitive Racing Strust tower brace
Tires : Silverstone S505 Rally Tires / BG Good Ridge Traction T/A

[rollo]

Region: SoCal

Car: Evo 8

Rallycross-specific mods: RallyArmor mudflaps, stock wheels wearing 2006 vintage BFG g-Force T/A KDWS tyres

Other random mods: RRM downpipe, lower suspension K-brace (stock won't fit over dp), Kartboy short-shifter and poly linkage/cage bushings, Ingalls "Stiffy" engine torque dampener, JDM Evo 8 MR BOV, DBA4000 brake rotors w/HP+ pads, SS braided brake and clutch lines, ACT 3200lb clutch with RRM lightened flywheel, clutch slave cylinder restrictor delete, German Evo 7 tail lights with working high intensity fog light, big wing delete, T-Sport Rev-Lite multi-stage shift light integrated into gauge cluster, turbo timer, GPS, bangin' stereo w/sub under passenger seat, rear view mirror out of stock Legacy GT.

:lol2:

That was fun, haven't done that for while.

[kturner]

Car: 1993 FWD Impreza 145k when purchased.
Class: 2wd Mod (M2)
Region: NER

When my car used to be rallyX only.

Season #1: Car was stripped and partially seam welded (bored had welder).
Welded diff (bored had welder)
Rally tires for gravel and cheapest snows I could find used for anything else.
custom 18x24 3/16th in. 5052 aluminum skidplate purchased as a cut off from local metal place for $40
$20 underdrive pulley to help the little ej18 rev a little better
3rd OA M2

Season #2: Added Kyb GR-2's and WRX springs
Custom quick steering rack with Coleman quickener
Corbeau Forza and 4 point harness
Porterfield r4 pads and shoes (not a good addition for rallyX purchased for long term stage rally build, otherwise wicked good stuff)
edit: Attended Team O'Neil 2 day rallyX school in early summer.
2nd OA M2

Season #3 (didn't run entire season): added cage for long term build.
Ran another bone stock fwd impreza in M2 while the other car was in the shop. Did ok.
3rd M2 @ National RallyX championship event with usual car.


There were other misc. wear items like a stuck caliper and a busted clutch, filters and fluids bu nothing else.

[A1337STI]

+1 for an other FWD Impreza !!! the ultimate Training car (like in Initial D) A FWD Impreza trains its driver.


so Brent want to clue us in on your theory(ies) of how Mods and classing is effecting if competitors return to future events?

[noisycricket]

You'll love this :)

Car: 1986 VW Quantum Syncro (daily driver)
Class: M4
Reason it's M4: Seized A/C compressor removed, shifter boot removed
Placed 2nd OA and 5th OA on its last two outings

Car: 1984 Maz-dog RX-7
Class: M2
Reason it's in M2: Numerous ;) Front suspension (including crossmember and steering) thrown away and replaced with something entirely different, much bodywork alteration for tire clearance, bridge ported 13B engine with standalone EFI, very little interior left, 5 point harness, hydraulic handbrake, MUCH larger brakes, the rear suspension is getting completely redesigned later this week... oh yes, and flat-shift :)

But then, I've been rallycrossing for a while now and a month without rallycross is like a morning without coffee. It just doesn't feel right.

[Usher]

Car: 2002 WRX Wagon
Class: M4
Region: Detroit

Performance Modifications:
uppipe, turboback exhaust, Cobb Stage 2 93 octane map
9.6 pound flywheel
short shifter
KYB AGX struts, camber bolts, front camber plates
Blizzak WS60/Hankook R201 soft compound

Other modifications:
Primitive skidplate
Rally Armor mud flaps
Rally Innovations light bar
4x Hella 500 driving lights
Group N transmission mount
lots of urethane bushings
trailer hitch

[cghstang]

Car: 1991 Nissan Sentra SE-R
Class: PF
Modifications:
cat-back exhaust
175/65R14 Hankook I-Pikes on steelies
no headliner- technically bumped me to M2 in an other wise stock class car

Car: 1998 Ford Escort ZX2
Class: PF
Modifications:
cat-back exhaust
hot shot intake
Esslinger Engineering underdrive pulley
some poly bushings
Ford Racing struts (stock springs)
21mm rear sway bar (probably going smaller)
175/65R14 Hankook I-Pikes on steelies
SS front brake lines
Soon to have: MX-3 seat(s), Scrothe 4pt harness, Filled Motor mounts

[MarkA]

Car: 1998 Ford Escort ZX2
Class: PF
Filled Motor mounts

To go OT for just a second, has the SCCA ever issued a clarification on motor mounts in prepared? In a strictly engineering sense, they function as a bushing and should therefore be replaceable but in the convoluted world of SCCA rules, motor mounts are not specifically called out.

[cghstang]

I take them as bushings. Prepared rules allow "any non-metallic bushing." Also, I read this as any bushing, any non-metallic material (not limited to suspension bushings).

I doubt I'll be protested, not that I'm going to the National Championship any way.

[noisycricket]

I take them as bushings. Prepared rules allow "any non-metallic bushing."

I doubt I'll be protested, not that I'm going to the National Championship any way.

I know of a few other Prepared class cars that interpret the rules the same way you do.

#1 "mod" is seat time. It is always seat time.

#2 is tires. A good driver with half-decent tires WILL place well, no matter what half-assed four wheeled box is being driven.

[paktinat]

Region: OVR


Car 1: 2004 WRX Wagon
Class: M4
STI shortblock with OEM head (only done when original block spun a bearing)
lightened crank pulley
F&R sways, endlinks
sti springs*
group N lateral link and trailing link bushings
catless UP, TBE
crappy tune
skidplates
cg-lock
15 wheels, crappy rally tires

car 2: 1986 GTI
Class: M2
completely stripped interior
aftermarket EFI EM
some kind of exhaust
crappy intake
solid motor mounts
shift light
crappy rally tires
bilstein HDs*


*waiting to go on.

[ArcticWolf]

Region: Land o Lakes
Car: 2006 Impreza 2.5i
Class: PA (at the time, anyway)

Mods:


Primitive 3/16ths front skid, mini rear
RallyArmor UR flaps
Group N front strut mounts
Front strut tower brace
20mm rear sway
Hawk HPS front, HP+ rear pads
Winterforces

Last event was Nov 08. Missed the entire 09 season due to unemployment or working weekends. Hoping to hit a few events this summer though.

[WAM]

Evo X for SM4

AMR coilovers (thanx Andy)
16" Team Dynamics with Winterforces
Wilwood/AMS small brakes to fit the rims.

[RallyTaco]

(This will be applicable to no one but what the hell I am bored:mrgreen:)

Region DET
02 Tacoma reg cab 2rz 2.4 4cyl


Injen CAI (They actually make one for my truck LOL)
Doug Thorley Header
Jardin catback
Rancho RS 9000 shocks for a GMC 1/2 ton (Fronts have adjuster removed due to clearance issues and a plate and spacer are set up for max damping)
Stiffer front springs from a v6 model
50 lb spring rubbers
Detroit Truetrac LSD (The best mod for rx hands down. Do this first regardless of cost if you are 2wd)

Wasted m4 Michelina for field/track events
Hakka 2's for snow and cold/muddy horse tracks


On the to do list:

Hydro handbrake
Agricultural tractor tires for mud events
205/75r15 OEM size General AT2's as the horse track weapon as rally tires are not really doing it snows are too soft to hold up in dry warm weather and gearing advantage of smaller tires is not needed.
Turf tire option- Thinking about Silverstone rally muds or Maxsport tires



Things I want to do but am not willing to jump up in class for just yet:

Electric fan
Convert front end to coilovers
Install closer ratio Supra trans to get rid of stump pulling 1st on OEM trans
Forced induction.

[pomspeed]

Thanks Chris, I'm hoping to get more feedback from folks who have modded their rallycross vehicles. Tell your friends/competitors I need their help. The more info, the better the analysis.

Thanks,
Brent

[soulofdarkness]

WDCR Rally Cross
1999 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS - PA

Engine:
Borla Header
Stromung Catback Exhaust
Clutch Maters Stage 4 Clutch
STI Motor & Tranny Mounts
Kartboy Front & Rear Shift Bushings
STi Oil Pan

Suspension:
Whiteline Adjustable Rear Sway Bar
Whiteline Endlinks
Tanabe Front Strut Towerbar & Rear Strut Towerbar
KYB AGX Struts with RS Springs - 2 blown after one season :cry:
Subaru 4-pot/2-pot brakes
Hawk HP pads
Dunlap Snow Tires

Protection:
RallyArmor Mud Flaps
Primitive Skid Plate Front/Rear Diff 3/16"

[I Like It Sideways]

Region: Western Ohio Region/Ohio Valley Region



Car 1: 2001 2.5RS

Class: M4

Handling bits:

-KYB AGX's
-Ground Control coil sleeves. 10 inch springs all around. 225lb front 200 lb rear
-3 way adjustable 19mm rear sway bar
-WRX 20mm front sway bar

Go-fast:

-Cobb EL header
-Cobb track pipe
-Cobb catback
-Cobb CAI

Grip:

-16" WRX wheels with Winterforce snow tires
-15" TD wheels with Michelin gravel tires

Protection:

-Rally-Armor skidplate
-Rally-Armor classic mudflaps
-Subaru rear diff protector

Free stuff:

-Carpet, sound deadening, airbag, glove box, trunk liner, front ballast weight, AC condensor and compressor, rear seats all removed.


Car 2: 2000 2.5RS

Class: M4

Handling bits:

-STi 20mm rear sway bar

Grip:

-16" WRX wheels with Winterforce snow tires

[Harry]

I've been runnin my Whitelines for almost two years rompin the everlovin piss out of em and so far so good! Mine are the heavyduty aluminum ones not the wire looking ones but thanks for the advice all the same!

Trashed my spherical WL endlinks in one full season of AX and one partial season of RX. I shifted to WL billet endlinks to reduce costs/repair rate. Late last season, apparently I snapped the 27/29mm WL FSB :-(.

Andrewtech spotted the failure when the center section of the sway bar fell off during clutch change :shocked:.

WL told them that it was probably the billet endlinks that snapped the FSB. I'm not sure that's true but Andrewtech got them replaced under warranty, so I'm back on WL sphericals and WL FSB. They're already rusting so we'll see how well they survive this season (first RX is this weekend at Summit Point).

Region: WDCR (RX at Summit Point, WV)

Car: 2006 WRX wagon

Class: SA

Mods:
- Primitive 3/16" skid plate
- Subaru diff protector
- Rally armor UR mud flaps
- Used 225/55/17 Bizzaks on stock WRX rims (rears are worn to almost death)

New/possible mods
- Maybe getting Winterforce tires (225/50/17 to stay SA legal?)
- bumper guard for front lip/bumper

- Harry

[pomspeed]

Harry, personally, I wouldn't use a FSB if I don't have to.

Brent

[Harry]

Harry, personally, I wouldn't use a FSB if I don't have to.

Brent

I have been wondering if I should run RX with FSB set on 27mm or maybe even disconnected.

I'm a little worried about handling being too sloppy without FSB, with possible snap roll. The wagon is a bit heavier and has higher center of gravity than a WRX sedan, so I get nervous it it rolls too much - I'm just a wimpy noob.

What's the consensus on FSB for RX? This has a stock WRX wagon suspension, so it's pretty softly sprung.

- Harry

[I Like It Sideways]

A 27mm FSB is way too large for rallycross IMHO. I do not have experience with driving on stock struts/springs with a larger bar, but weight transfer is your friend on loose surface driving in order to help the car rotate. Stock sway bars work fine, even disconnecting both works very well from what I have read.

[noisycricket]

If you don't find yourself bottoming the suspension ever, it's worth it to try removing the sway bars.

A lot of it depends on driving style - people who just drive the car and thread the cones are better off with softer compliant suspension. People who overdrive and chuck the car around everywhere are better off with something stiffer.

[pomspeed]

Seth, Pete? Thanks for the input. This thread was started so I can compile data for classes. Now, with more people posting what mods they have, it can be helpful for folks who don't know what they should or shouldn't do to prep their cars. Good side benefit that I hadn't counted on.

Thanks for the help, the more input on car mods the better.

[9one9racing.com]

My current setup is:

'99 RS. stock motor (except for the aftermarket crank pulley that came on the motor).
d-spec struts, 04STI springs and tophats (rears modded to fit)
wrx rear swaybar
home made skid plate
rally tires on 15" subaru wheels. Ive also cut my tires, which have helped a lot in the muddier situations.

Last season I raced my same RS. but with only the skid plate and rally tires. it sucked bad because the suspension was shot and it made for a sloppy season.

having susp. that works made life so much easier, now i can really focus on the real points of driving instead of trying to fight my car bouncing around really bad.

our "region" is 98% subarus. we have maybe 1 AWD talon and 1 AWD audi.

of those 98% subarus, a heavy majority are non-turbo

[St165]

Alot of people seem to be running AGX's but I have heard from people that this is not what you want for rally because they tend to blow easily. And the adjustment knob can bend and then it mess's everything up.

[Rally OBXT]

^^ For Rally X they are fine. For stage....not so much.

[I Like It Sideways]

Alot of people seem to be running AGX's but I have heard from people that this is not what you want for rally because they tend to blow easily. And the adjustment knob can bend and then it mess's everything up.

AGX's were never valved for the abuse of rally.
For rallies like Sno*Drift, they would likely be fine. However, aside from that, they likely wouldn't last beyond an event or two. However some have run them on smaller cars before...Civics and the like.

For rallycross, I love them.

[052pnt5RS]

05 RS

General Altimax Artics
Genuine subaru rear diff protector
SPT catback
rallyarmor mudflaps
paranoid fab exhaust hangers


Want to upgrade to wrx rear sway or adj.

[pomspeed]

052pnt5RS, I'm guessing SA class? Also, that's WOR events?

Thanks for the info.

Brent

[bigcale]

me neither, Brent...what the heck you doing here? 8)

I think, correct me if I am wrong Brent, he is looking into the SCCA rules about mods and tires. Specifically people who have some substantial mods and come to their first rallycross and find themselves in a class that allows rally tires and are not willing to put out the $ to change their brakes (for the STI) and buy another set of tires and wheels just for that purpose. I know here in FRX land we have a slightly different set of rules, but I think he is gathering info to talk to the rallycross board of directors about adding in a class for street tires and mods.

[pomspeed]

And on that note, you can see the link below for more fun.

http://www.sccabb.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8893&PN=1

Back on topic, thanks for all the input, keep it coming, as this is great info.

Brent

[99subaru2.2]

Car: 99' Subaru 2.2l Awd
Class: SA (NER)
Mods: Mudflaps, Cherry bomb Muffler conversion, BALD 195/65/15 Sears special tires!
Soon to come: Strut tower braces. Forester lift. NOT BALD TIRES, Cat Back 2.5" Exhaust, Bump up to PA class!

[rallyxPOS13]

While I don't agree with adding classes to rallycross, I'll chime in with some more data for you to use.

When I wrecked my 240SX, I ended up buying a 'typical' WRX wagon:

2002 WRX wagon (M4)
-VF30 turbo
-catless uppipe/downpipe
-3" cat back exhuast
-Gianormous TMIC
-STi pink injectors
-Walboro fuel pump
-Cobb engine management
-Blingy blue hoses everywhere
-Blingy purple swaybar endlinks

Since buying it, I've added the only mods that are helpful to rallyX
-20/55/16 iPike snow tires
-Homemade skidplate


FWIW, at our first couple events, I think only one of the 4wd cars came with snow tires, and FTD was set with a completely stock 09 WRX with stock tires at event 1, and a well prepped PF Neon SRT4 with rally tires at event 2.



Matt Miller
Wichita Region Rallycross Chair

[pomspeed]

Thanks Matt, so how do you like Kansas compared to Nebraska?

Brent

[noisycricket]

And on that note, you can see the link below for more fun.

http://www.sccabb.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8893&PN=1

Back on topic, thanks for all the input, keep it coming, as this is great info.

Brent


Ah yes, my current favorite thread on any forum anywhere.

My opinions on the matter are probably best kept to myself, but I hope I've helped clarify what people are seeing as the problem.

(I still think there should be a "Novice" waiver. Or - crazy thought - don't try to cater to people who aren't going to enjoy it)

[wolfman79]

I'd post build lists but they really aren't rally-x specific. I will say that I and quite a few people I know out here that are or were interested in running in rally-x find that the current class structure puts a great many of us at a perceived disadvantage. If building the sport and participation is a goal then perhaps a "new" class would help.

My 03 wagon as currently built is in Mod, but an 06/07 wagon with the exact same modifications would be in Prepared. What's the logic behind that? Why not allow some form of middle ground between Prepared and Mod?

Most of the people that I know would love to come out and try their hand at getting dirty but they are also competitive and when they realize that they'd be running in a class that allows fully caged and logged rally cars they find something else to do. Do I or most of my friends expect to start winning from the jump? No of course not, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't like the chance to do so. What most newbies in my shoes have to decide is whether we want to rebuild our current cars to be competitive, by a different car and start over strictly for rally-x, or simply find another venue/outlet to go play. And 9 out of 10 times they'll pick option number 3.

[noisycricket]

My 03 wagon as currently built is in Mod, but an 06/07 wagon with the exact same modifications would be in Prepared. What's the logic behind that?

There's a logical disconnect there. If the mod on an '03 puts you in Mod, then the same mods on an '07 put you in Mod.

Why not allow some form of middle ground between Prepared and Mod?Because the class structure is completely arbitrary and it doesn't really matter.

Most of the people that I know would love to come out and try their hand at getting dirty but they are also competitive and when they realize that they'd be running in a class that allows fully caged and logged rally cars they find something else to do.You've never seen full caged and logged rally cars get beaten by someone in a stock Neon on bald all-seasons, then.

Being competitive is not something that can be bought. It can only be learned. Rallycross is interesting because the courses are so variable, and it is not about how fast you can go but how well you can drive. That is why cones count against your time, after all.

At a recent rallycross, a newcomer complained in the forums (and apparently quite vocally at the site, too) that the gates in some areas were too narrow, and in the sweepers the wall of cones on the back was really cramping his style because he couldn't go balls-out. Well, that isn't the point. It's not about driving balls-out.

[wolfman79]

There's a logical disconnect there. If the mod on an '03 puts you in Mod, then the same mods on an '07 put you in Mod.

An 06/07 WRX has a 2.5l motor stock. My 03 also has a 2.5l motor. Because my motor is "swapped" I am automatically in Mod regardless of any other parts on my car. The fact that I am automatically forced into a class I didn't want to compete in simply because I didn't buy a new enough car really pisses me off.


Because the class structure is completely arbitrary and it doesn't really matter.

To whom does it not matter? To most people on the outside looking in the class structure in rally-x seems to be very limited. The fact that the vast majority of "street modded cars" fall into the Mod class scares a lot of new people away. Regardless of whether there is a true performance advantage gained the perception still remains, and perception is key when luring new participants.

You've never seen full caged and logged rally cars get beaten by someone in a stock Neon on bald all-seasons, then.

Being competitive is not something that can be bought. It can only be learned. Rallycross is interesting because the courses are so variable, and it is not about how fast you can go but how well you can drive. That is why cones count against your time, after all.

At a recent rallycross, a newcomer complained in the forums (and apparently quite vocally at the site, too) that the gates in some areas were too narrow, and in the sweepers the wall of cones on the back was really cramping his style because he couldn't go balls-out. Well, that isn't the point. It's not about driving balls-out.

As someone who has been around various motorsports including rally-x back in its fledgling days, I know full well and good that driver skill is the number one factor. But again if you are trying to attract new participants they often don't make that correlation until they've been to 2 or more events.

As for the stock Neon beating the caged rally car, I've seen similar and it's almost always in driver skill or course layout not that the "Neon" is a faster car. Put the driver of the Neon in the rally car and they usually put up better times.

[kturner]

An 06/07 WRX has a 2.5l motor stock. My 03 also has a 2.5l motor. Because my motor is "swapped" I am automatically in Mod regardless of any other parts on my car. The fact that I am automatically forced into a class I didn't want to compete in simply because I didn't buy a new enough car really pisses me off.


logical disconnect. one is swapped not "swapped" and the other stock. get an older car?

[pomspeed]

Wolfman, everyones list of mods is what I'm looking for. Please post them, you have an interesting list so far, swapped motor. What else is done to your car? The "funny" twist is that an 07 can run in stock and you can't because of the swap, which is fair, but to have to go straight to an unlimited class, that's crazy.

Anyone here autocross? Imagine being told that you have a mod that "because of the current class structure" you have to run against the AMods. Anyone who doesn't get what that means, check out the rules for amod, they are very flexible like rallycrosses mod class.

Great conversation guys, but if you haven't listed your mods yet, please do so, it'll be greatly appreciated.

Brent

[Usher]

Anyone here autocross? Imagine being told that you have a mod that "because of the current class structure" you have to run against the AMods.
I'm in almost exactly that situation when I autocross. I'm in DMod, just because I have a kit car. If you think street tires are a disadvantage in rallycross, you need to try autocrossing in DMod with street tires. I bought a set of Hoosier A6 tires just to get me close to being competitive, but I'm still still typically over 100 pounds heavier than the other cars and usually have 150 less horsepower.

[pigpen]

(I still think there should be a "Novice" waiver. Or - crazy thought - don't try to cater to people who aren't going to enjoy it)

just because someone enjoys rallycrossing, doesn't necessarily mean they want to build a dedicated car to a specific class. with the number of autocross and time attack/race classes out there for tarmac, you can usually float between different organizations and remain in a class where your car isn't terribly lacking in one area.

It probably isn't much of a problem for the most part with rallycross, but the class structure is such that a few mods can put you in a rally tire class. With subarus being so common at rallycross, one of the key issues is STi's trying to run in a class that allows rally tires, but not being able to fit them without downgrading the brakes. It is far too time-consuming for your average person to completely change their brake setup between tarmac and rallycross events in order to fit on rally tires. I understand that there are cases when a rally tire isn't the optimal solution, but when it is, that is a big disadvantage. I also understand that driver skill is the number one factor, but tires are usually second, and therein lies the problem for powerful cars that also want to run tarmac events, requiring brakes too big for wheels that fit rally tires.

I think having a class that allows for cars modified to run faster on the street without having to go up against the rally tires in a regional-only class is a good solution. Regional only racing classes have proven to be successful because a lot of people want to go out and have fun competing against people in the same situation (in this case, cars modded with the street in mind; in that case, running on a small budget instead of against sponsored cars, some with hired drivers). In either case, it's about welcoming people to compete at a more casual level instead of against the more hardcore.

[RallyTaco]

An 06/07 WRX has a 2.5l motor stock. My 03 also has a 2.5l motor. Because my motor is "swapped" I am automatically in Mod regardless of any other parts on my car. The fact that I am automatically forced into a class I didn't want to compete in simply because I didn't buy a new enough car really pisses me off.
.

Forgive me if my Suby ignorance is confusing me but am I to understand your pissed you have to be in mod because you have a car with an engine that never came in that car from the factory that year? Sorry but that seems to be an oversight on your part.

Not that many people are running around with engines that never came in their cars that wouldn't consider that a pretty major modification.

You have to draw the line somewhere. Whats the difference between that and a whole STI drivetrain or dropping a v6 into another make of car that only came with a four banger?

There are some fuzzy areas that could maybe be tweaked but entire engine swaps of engines that never came with the car in the first place is not ever going to be one of those fuzzy areas that's some pretty major crap even if your caught out by just a couple of model years you can't allow it across the board.

[WAM]

Anyone here autocross? Imagine being told that you have a mod that "because of the current class structure" you have to run against the AMods.

Yeah Brent, I autocross. But I don't see it the same as some of you. If you're not serious about the sport, it doesn't matter all that much what class you put yourself into. Run whacha brung and have fun. If you are serious, you'll do your homework and not do that mod that would "put you in A-Mod". Either way works, depending on what you want.

While I like (and run) street mod, I wouldn't want to see it added to the SCCA class structure unless accompanied by consolidation of poorly subscribed classes. Keep the total number of classes constant and divide up the pie in a way that makes the most sense.

Back to autocross...I drive a CP Mustang. And usually run in a class of one, because my region has few prepared class cars. Don't want to see RallyCross go down that path of a class for every entrant.

[noisycricket]

An 06/07 WRX has a 2.5l motor stock. My 03 also has a 2.5l motor. Because my motor is "swapped" I am automatically in Mod regardless of any other parts on my car. The fact that I am automatically forced into a class I didn't want to compete in simply because I didn't buy a new enough car really pisses me off.

So, the '07 is not modded while your '03 is.

The rules are not supposed to equalize the cars, they are supposed to provide tiers of preparation. I mean, for that matter, some model years have different stabilizer bars than others. There is no line-item update - switching rear bars is instant Prepared.

A thought. Could you enter your car as an '07? (Is your car basically at '07 spec, aside from allowed variances like comfort & convenience items (gauges and stuff)?) I am unfamiliar with the rule on bumpers/lights in Stock.

To whom does it not matter? To most people on the outside looking in the class structure in rally-x seems to be very limited. The fact that the vast majority of "street modded cars" fall into the Mod class scares a lot of new people away. Regardless of whether there is a true performance advantage gained the perception still remains, and perception is key when luring new participants.

That is why I like the three-event novice waiver for classification. If you're not hooked after three events, you won't be. And, after three events, it should become clear that car prep isn't quite as important as the nut holding the steering wheel :)

[noisycricket]

just because someone enjoys rallycrossing, doesn't necessarily mean they want to build a dedicated car to a specific class.

The only people I know who build "dedicated cars to specific classes" de-modify their daily driver cars so they can run in Stock. (*cough Scott Johnson cough*) It doesn't slow them down any. I think the only thing that had been keeping him out of SA was a boost controller or a strut brace or something pointless like that.

I know some people who try to keep their cars Stock because there's more fun in it. I know some other people who have Prepared-class cars who run in Modified because there's more people in Mod than Prep.

[LGT-FST]

Ken and I drove his Evo at last years national in the mod class. The car ia pa legal. We ran snow tyres instead of rally's. The snows are lighter and spin up quicker. Down sizing is not necessary, a well driven Evo or sti in sa with a set of snows will be able to run with the pa class. LOR

[pomspeed]

While I like (and run) street mod, I wouldn't want to see it added to the SCCA class structure unless accompanied by consolidation of poorly subscribed classes. Keep the total number of classes constant and divide up the pie in a way that makes the most sense.

Back to autocross...I drive a CP Mustang. And usually run in a class of one, because my region has few prepared class cars. Don't want to see RallyCross go down that path of a class for every entrant.

Funny thing, that is what is proposed, to consolidate the rwd classes into one. If there were people showing up for these classes, I'd be opposed to the idea, but yeah, that's one plan check out these.

http://www.sccabb.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8887&PN=1

Warren, glad to have you join in. How modded is your Audi?

[wolfman79]

2003 WRX Wagon

EJ257 block with EJ205 heads
VF39 turbo
DW 750cc injectors
Stock intake
3" catted TBE
STi GroupN motor and trans mounts

KYB AGX struts
STi wagon springs
STi GroupN tophats
Stock FSB
20mm STi RSB
Kartboy endlinks

STi GroupN brake calipers front and rear AKA 06/07 WRX brakes
Hawk HP+ pads
Powerslot rotors

This is the current setup the car will be running this season.

We threw the VF39 and E85 setup on since we'll be in Mod regardless due to my engine replacement.

[wolfman79]

A thought. Could you enter your car as an '07? (Is your car basically at '07 spec, aside from allowed variances like comfort & convenience items (gauges and stuff)?) I am unfamiliar with the rule on bumpers/lights in Stock.


I could quite easily have the car at 06/07 spec as far as drivetrain. My understanding from some of the folks here in Colorado was that the car is still an 03 and will have to meet class requirements as such.

[Ty Ty]

Warren, glad to have you join in. How modded is your Audi?

01 Audi A4 aka the Terminator. Car is gutted with two sparco seats, weight 2800 lbs. Bilstein hd's with s4 springs, stiffens ride and raise ride ht 3/4". k04 turbo, bigger injectors, larger intake plumbing with cone filter. Boost is turned down to 19 lbs. No cat 2 1/2' exhaust with one muffler. 15" Audi aluminum wheels with a large assortment of rubber mounted. A large wing on the trunk for bling. Car runs in m4 in NER and select national events. The best mod is lots of seat time. :eek: LOR



.;-)

[pomspeed]

Thanks Tyler, I forgot he posted on Feb 23rd, I'm just getting forgetful or lazy.

Usher, glad you could see the humor in me saying AMod, because DMod is almost as bad, but you are still having a blast, right?

Thanks for all the help guys.

Brent

[Usher]

Usher, glad you could see the humor in me saying AMod, because DMod is almost as bad, but you are still having a blast, right?

I still have lots of fun. The classing just makes it so that if I have to choose between two events, I'll pick the one where I can get the most seat time rather than going for the one with the most competition. I definitely won't stop going to autocrosses just because my car is not competitive in its class.

[pomspeed]

Good to hear, seat time IS seat time. I'll be doing more autox this season as rallycross has had its own setback. Shifter karts, just one step down from AMod, woohoo.

[katnip]

i destroyed the whiteline endlinks inside of 1k miles. and i was only on dirt alittle bit of the time. 409 told me to try perrin ends. ya might look into them. and i love whiteline parts, too. but it was an expensive mistake....endlinks anyway.

perrins suck, blew threw a pair on my RS rxing it. kartboy the best

[katnip]

now that I've read the entire thread

the best mod is to learn to drive. don't worry about mod's or weight, LEARN TO DRIVE!!!!!!! PERIOD.

NER
PA

04 STi (bought the car this way)
headers
up pipe
cold air
group n brakes

currently pestering the rallyboard for approval to use a PGT RA log booked rally car in PA, so at the rougher events I can be a nancy and run the rally car instead of the STi:jack: but because a properly built rally car can't fit an unbutchered back seat I am forced to run mod. without the Ohlen's suspension she would be bone stock (thus PGT) but because it has a cage for safety, it must run modified.

I have been beaten by a 17 y/o in an impreza with a 1/8L in SA, while running the rally car and the STi.

LEARN TO DRIVE KIDS, MODS ARE A WASTE OF MONEY UNTIL YOU DO.:headbang:

[LGT-FST]

Hi Nancy. LOR

[katnip]

Hi Nancy. LOR

hey I ran the STi at Belmont. I don't recall seeing your EVO at any rallycrosses EVAR. Me thinks you are Queen Nancy!

[Ty Ty]

Zing!

[wolfman79]

now that I've read the entire thread

the best mod is to learn to drive. don't worry about mod's or weight, LEARN TO DRIVE!!!!!!! PERIOD.
.......


LEARN TO DRIVE KIDS, MODS ARE A WASTE OF MONEY UNTIL YOU DO.:headbang:

I was under the impression that this discussion was more geared to finding out how to bring more people into the sport. Telling someone who has a stock car not to worry about mods and to focus on learning to drive first is easy, the tougher question is what do you tell someone with a "street modded" car? The average person with a street modded car is going to look at the situation, realize that they aren't going to be competitive and choose to spend their time and money elsewhere. And judging by what I see out here in Colorado is that the average person who's going to be interested in Rallycross in the first place is going to have a "street modded" car.

[RallyTaco]

I was under the impression that this discussion was more geared to finding out how to bring more people into the sport.


Actually it wasn't. It was supposed to just be a thread listing mods to serve as a reference to others which it was until you made your post and sucked in others (myself included) into SM off topic land.

I'm not talking about it anymore on this thread and neither should you.

[wolfman79]

Thanks guys. The reason why I'm wanting to do all of this is to find out why some many don't come back to rallycross. As an organizer understanding how or why this happens and trying to find ways to grow this sport is the purpose. Posting in all the different regions makes compiling the data easier, since not everyones location states where they are from, but regionally, close enough.

So I got Aarons approval to do this. Now the threads have been moved and it makes it look uselessly redundant to have posted the same thing 3 times in rallycross prep. (Which I didn't do)

Data wise NER had a National Challenge with more in one class than some programs get in total, but that was only regional, NC competitor count was about half that. Oregon has the same scenario. Reasons why people can't do both days vary.

Tyler, thanks for your info, get the other NEsters to post you guys get huge numbers at your events, maybe I should just move east, nah, too cold.

Brent

Actually it wasn't. It was supposed to just be a thread listing mods to serve as a reference to others which it was until you made your post and sucked in others (myself included) into SM off topic land.

I'm not talking about it anymore on this thread and neither should you.

Funny maybe I misunderstood the bolded section as posted from the OP....

[RallyTaco]

I thought this was just a thread to list mods not argue endlessly for SM. If I am wrong I retract my statement and apologize.

Didn't think it would make much of a list if half the posts are SM is awesome vs the no it isn't crowd.

[noisycricket]

Telling someone who has a stock car not to worry about mods and to focus on learning to drive first is easy, the tougher question is what do you tell someone with a "street modded" car?

Same thing - don't look at mods, just focus on learning to drive. NOBODY is built to the limit of the rules, anywhere.

BTW - I only recall ever seeing ONE M4 class car riding a trailer to a rallycross - that'd be LGT-FST's. Everyone 'round here drives them on the street, so by definition they are still street legal. And that Audi is nowhere near built to the limit of the rules, either.

For perspective - a World Rally Car wouldn't be built to the limit of the rules, since there is no maximum displacement or restrictor requirement, no maximum tire size, no minimum weight...

[Ty Ty]

Same thing - don't look at mods, just focus on learning to drive. NOBODY is built to the limit of the rules, anywhere.

BTW - I only recall ever seeing ONE M4 class car riding a trailer to a rallycross - that'd be LGT-FST's. Everyone 'round here drives them on the street, so by definition they are still street legal. And that Audi is nowhere near built to the limit of the rules, either.


We have a lot of trailer queens up here in NER, mine included.

[noisycricket]

There seems to be a large number of rallycross Audis in New England too. Coincidence? :)

Hey - put that down! My engine has four rings on it too! But if I was going to build it into a rallycross car, I'd ditch the inline five (sorry) and build a hybrid engine out of a 3.0l V6 shortblock and 12v heads. Very light weight (possibly lighter than a N/A four) and compression ratio somewhere in the 13:1 range. Lots and lots of midrange power with no lag.

Call me crazy, but I think I'd adapt a Subaru transaxle as well. Audi did not many any center diffs worth a damn and the aftermarket hasn't filled the void. The 016 works okay but isn't stellar.

[Ty Ty]

There seems to be a large number of rallycross Audis in New England too. Coincidence? :)

Hey - put that down! My engine has four rings on it too! But if I was going to build it into a rallycross car, I'd ditch the inline five (sorry) and build a hybrid engine out of a 3.0l V6 shortblock and 12v heads. Very light weight (possibly lighter than a N/A four) and compression ratio somewhere in the 13:1 range. Lots and lots of midrange power with no lag.

Call me crazy, but I think I'd adapt a Subaru transaxle as well. Audi did not many any center diffs worth a damn and the aftermarket hasn't filled the void. The 016 works okay but isn't stellar.

Just can't beat the sound of a turbo 5, it's a beautiful thing. As for the center diffs, I rather like my torsen, and the lockers in the 01E in the 4k's and 5's are pretty nice as well. With my factory locker out back, and torsen center, I've got better grip than most of the other cars out there. The only thing that tops it are the active diffs in an STi or Evo, and in the ultra loose surfaces we have up here, that difference is negligable anyway.

I won't even get into the glass that Subaru makes their synchros and gearsets out of. :lol2:



Back on topic.

[wolfman79]

Same thing - don't look at mods, just focus on learning to drive. NOBODY is built to the limit of the rules, anywhere.

BTW - I only recall ever seeing ONE M4 class car riding a trailer to a rallycross - that'd be LGT-FST's. Everyone 'round here drives them on the street, so by definition they are still street legal. And that Audi is nowhere near built to the limit of the rules, either.

For perspective - a World Rally Car wouldn't be built to the limit of the rules, since there is no maximum displacement or restrictor requirement, no maximum tire size, no minimum weight...

Well I know there are more than a few riding trailers to events out here in Colorado including mine. A rally(cross) car built to any spec is street legal but that doesn't mean you'd want to daily drive it.

[noisycricket]

Yeah, I got yelled at by martinus for having a CD player in my "rallycross" car. :)

Protip: Get USB-capable car audio. USB drives don't skip and have no problems with dust. When I took my CD player out this winter to install gauges, I shook a small pile of dust out... and this was BEFORE getting the compressed air.

Dust is the only reason I have no carpeting. Our events can get remarkably dusty (esp. with the windows down...) and it makes the car remarkably odorous. With no carpeting, you still get some stink but the car mostly can be cleaned out with a leaf blower. And if you use a 2-cycle leaf blower, the exhaust smell gets rid of the stink!

disclaimer: I think 2-cycle exhaust smells GOOD

[pomspeed]

Thanks for all the posts and car mod lists everyone. Off topic is not a problem, I'm used to it. I have used a "voucher idea" before, it means for every post off topic, you should get someone new to post the mods they have to their car. hehehe

Seriously though, off topic still provides useful info to someone out there.

[pcowan]

Brent, you're pretty familiary with my STi so I won't bother with the laundry list.

To speak to one of the points as to why people get out of RallyX, or not come back: I just got burned out after while... then my car blew up. Getting burned out was mainly a case of spending hours on travel and course building for 5 minutes of seat time. In those last years there was also a lack of competition in open class which made it more like an exhibition than a race.

I've been hoping to get engaged up here with ORG but there are a few car issues that I'm still sorting out: the new turbo is too big and laggy and I'm lacking tires. These shouldn't stop me from going out, but I seem to have a mental block about going back if I don't think I'll be competitive.

Follow up: Turbo was fine but the tires combined with the mud were complete crap, still had fun. :)
--pete

[thedoobscoob]

No to bring this thread back from the dead or anything but I was wondering if there was any advantage to running with no front sway bar on my 07 obs... I doesnt have one right now and i kinda like the way the front end floats and the back comes around. I guess its just all by feel... any feedback would be awesome.

[pomspeed]

good question. I feel that not having a front sway bars helps free the suspension from side to side, sounds logical enough. The next effect is what happens when you have a rear bar but not a front bar. Mostly it depends on your driving style, as a rear bar should help the back of the car rotate easier(tying the left and right together). Personally, I don't use them in stock (no front bar) and other classes neither bar.

Brent

[pcowan]

good question. I feel that not having a front sway bars helps free the suspension from side to side, sounds logical enough. The next effect is what happens when you have a rear bar but not a front bar. Mostly it depends on your driving style, as a rear bar should help the back of the car rotate easier(tying the left and right together). Personally, I don't use them in stock (no front bar) and other classes neither bar.

Brent

The biggest potential problem with a rear bar but no front is lifting one of the inside rear tire. It's not really a problem per say but it certainly doesn't help your lap times.

[pomspeed]

Yeah, Pete, that's what makes the SCCA stock class rule about modifying front bars, silly. It should just be left alone.

[thedoobscoob]

Thanks for the help, I can feel the rear inside tire pick up on bumpy corners so guess I will just hook the front bar back up. btw i ran with a 22mm epic rear sway attached too