OBS lift, sti springs not cutting it, what now?

[DoSomethingGreat]

So I recently put new suspension on my 2002 OBS Impreza. The stock set up was complete toast so I took the opportunity to do some upgrades.

Things to keep in mind
1) my n/a OBS sits higher stock then a wrx OBS and even higher yet then a sti sedan. I want to at least maintain this height but I really wanted a lift.

Things I wanted
1) sportier/firmer ride
2) better ground clearance
3) no more saggy butt
4) not spend $3,000

What I did
1) 04-07 USDM sti springs used takeoffs (224/192 I think. is this right?)
2) 02-03’ KYB GR-2 wagon struts (these had the correct camber for my rear and were supposed to have 15% more dampening over wrx stockers which would be a bumch more then my OBS n/a stockers)
3) Sti 04-07 tophats (used takeoffs and I now can run any modern rear 04-07 spring)
4) Jackson rally 1” Lift (a aluminum spacer that sits ontop of the whole strut assembally)
5) Scooby921 Strut Spacers for the rears (to make my 02-03 struts fit the 04-07 top hats in the rear)
6) Paranoid fabrications 1/4 aluminum saggy butt spacers (just trying to fight rear end droop compared to front)

What I still need to do
Get new boot covers for the rears struts

The problems
1) Using the 1" lift I only got stock ride height due to the un-anticipated 1" drop from the sti stock takeoff springs. I guess I'm OK with this height.
2) My stock OBS bottom out bump stops reduce my usable suspension travel to about an inch before hitting. :( See picture. As much fun as this is to whip around smooth corners it makes my car ride stiff as hell. When I put the springs on they were short enough that I was able to hand push them down enough to reassemble the struts without the use if a spring compressor. Is this right?? Did I get sold something else besides the 2006 sti springs I thought I was getting???

What I might do to fix it
1) Do wrx's use different bump stops that are shorter then mine?? I could get those. TiC also apparently sells shorter bump stops I could buy.
2) Get spt pink forester springs for the back. But what do I do for the front? Can I use forester springs up front too? I would love to get taller springs with similar rates to the USDM sti stock take offs I have.
3) put my stock saggy weak springs back on. :unamused:

Here is a pic of how much space I have before I hit the bump stop. Not much!
http://www.dosomethinggreat.net/stuff/rear%20strut%20bump400x450.jpg

Here is a pic of my current wheel gap. Still have a saggy butt even if its stiff as all get out.
http://www.dosomethinggreat.net/stuff/wheel%20gap%20500x300.jpg

Here is an example of a stock subaru I found online
http://www.dosomethinggreat.net/stuff/subaru%20stock%20example%20500x300.jpg

[williaty]

That all sounds about right.

The OBS suspension is a little over an inch taller than the standard Impreza suspension. STi springs on non-OBS RSes results in no ride height change so, for you, that would be over an inch drop. Then your Jackson Rally spacers put you back up to where you started. It's also normal to have only a little strut showing before the bumpstop at ride height. Remember that the initial engagement is VERY soft on modern bumpstops so they're not having as much influence on your ride quality as you think.

[DoSomethingGreat]

I am thinking about swapping the USDM impreza sti take off springs out for Forester sti pink springs.



For reference,

02 OBS springs to be 12.25"f/13.0"R I just measured these

04 wrx wagon springs to be 11.75"f/12.68"R and 163/144 lbs/in (quote ten80)
04-07 F sti springs to be 11.75"f/12.25"R and ~205f/194r lbs/in (quote Peaty)

05-07 impreza sti take off springs Does any one know spring rates and lengths??


Here are some particulars:
Part numbers: Forester sti JCM pinks
ST2033088000 Front
ST2038088000 Rear
Spring rates
Fronts: 34 N/mm
Rear: 29 N/mm


Figured I could gain some more ground clearance and maybe a smoother ride with the forester sti pink springs.


Any suggestions or comments?

[GClark]

Have you put a bigger rsb on yet? I put a 25mm on my obs and it made the biggest difference. I say do that next.

[DoSomethingGreat]

When I got the car back in 2002 I put a WRX rear sway bar on right away. (Yup I bought the thing new and still have it 127,000 miles later!) I can't remember what diameter those stock WRX RSB are but it was a huge improvement over the pathetic thing that came on my car. I wouldn't really want to go any stiffer d/t loss of independent travel. I've been enjoying that cheap upgrade for a long time now. The car is pretty neutral in the corners now after putting the sti springs on. I recently considered getting kartboy or perrin endlinks for the front and rear sway bars as my weak stock ones are now looking sadder then all get out. Honestly though that is kind of low on the priority list. I would however, enjoy some extra ground clearance for this upcoming Utah winter. I can't wait! Snow bird resort opens for their first day of snowboarding tomorrow!!! :headbang:

[GClark]

Your from Utah? We have to get together and do alittle offroading! You can see how my car handles with the bigger sway bar, stock springs, and truck tires. Im right in SLC...

[DoSomethingGreat]

I live right in sugar house!

[nawoj]

i think a taller spring is exactly what you need to get your car handling the way you think it should... what spring that would be? i have no idea.

putting shorter springs on a strut meant for longer travel seems counter productive in my mind.

i know what your going for, i too would like a firmer/sportier ride without sacrificing ride hight.

[GClark]

Me too! Im currently going to college at Westminster. Hey on the 5th of December me and bunch of other guys from slcsubaru are going out to Dugway for some offroading, you should come! We are meeting at 11 at Rocky Mt Raceway or I could just meet you in sugarhouse.

[jbrady]

I think the forester springs may be a really good option for you guys. Your ride height now looks good to me remember you will have a bit more fender gap in the front then rear when level. whats important is that the body under the doors (sill) is level with the ground. Also to firm up the ride the right way is to do it with the strut. Use the spring to get the height you want. Not sure if they work for you guys since you have the wagon but the KYB AGX adjustable struts would firm up your ride really nicely. Also in my opinion to get the ride height you want i think ideally you should go with the ground control coil over kit. The threaded sleeve kit with springs, they work with stock struts. I would run the AGX struts with the ground control setup. You can get any rate spring you want then, adjust the ride height exactly where you want it, and when you use those strut spacers on the top of the stut like you are, you lose travel cause the strut is still compressed as it would be if the car was an inch lower. So with the ground control kit you would get that travel back, this is why you are so close to the bump stops now. You can cut bump stops and you can buy shorter ones but i think in your situation you have some better options. Let me know what ya think....... Ground Control sleeves, springs, and the AGXs would give you everything your looking for bud. :)

[DoSomethingGreat]

Yeah, I am sure I would be pretty happy with an adjustable setup, but I was trying to not spend too much cash on the project. I am having fun with my car on the pavement though. It has a really neutral feel around the corners with the current spring rates. I think I'm gonna go for the forester pink springs once I get some extra cash on hand. I have free alignments through firestone so I might swap springs between summer and winter.

GClark, I have the 5th off so I could be pretty interested in getting together with you guys. What kind of stuff do you do?

[sniper1rfa]

careful, going much higher will definitely put you out of the suspension's real useful height range. Going to have major problems with camber and such.

[GClark]

PMed!

[erikkellison]

What did you end up doing?
I have a 2002 WRX Wagon, and I'm trying to figure out how to maintain stock ride height, get some stiffer springs (~225/~200) and not use any spacers to get there so that I have more useful bump travel.
I'm debating between the FSTi Pink Springs, STi Wagon Pinks and the Ground Control Springs (but worried about the latter on my D-Specs due to ten80's thread on Nasioc).
Input?

[DoSomethingGreat]

Hey erikkellison (http://www.dirtyimpreza.com/forums/member.php?u=4168),

I have been runnig the sti takeoffs with the GR-2 wagon struts, sti top hats, and jackson rally 1" lift spacers, and a 1/4" saggy but shim, for a while now. It is only noticibly ruff when hitting a reverse speed dip or speed bump. Otherwise it makes the car feel so much better going around all the corners. I wish I could have not used the spacers and had more total suspension travel but this is working well regardless. I still occasionally contemplate trying the forester pink sti springs but my whole point of the project was to get a lot of bang for the buck. I still plan on getting four camber bolts since I have my camber maxed at the front wheels and yet they are barely cambered out at all according to my last alignment job. If you find some more good info about the forester sti springs please pass it my way.

Thanks!
Jeremy

[erikkellison]

Still no one can give me hard data for the Forester STi Pink Springs. I talked with Jamie at SubaruGenuineParts (very knowledgeable) and she said "wrong size, too stiff, too low." I trust her and am going to get the wagon pink sti springs.
However, I am not altogether convinced without hard numbers. You see, I found another thread on a Forester forum that had people talking about different spring setups with aftermarket (non-self-leveling) struts. A guy chimed in and said that the Forester Sti Pinks lowered his XT ~1.5" all around (they are quoted at 30mm F 25mm R). Another guy said that he had STi USDM takeoffs (same rate as the wagon STi pinks, but the latter have a slightly longer spring in the rear so it is most useful to compare the lowering of the front) on his car and that they lowered his car ~3" all around (purportedly saggier in the rear). This makes me think that the difference in lowering of the Impreza STi pinks and the Forester STi pinks is ~1.5". If the Impreza STi pinks will lower my car about an inch, then the Forester STi pinks should raise it about 0.5". The proof is in the pudding, but since the Forester STi pink springs are literally twice the price of the wagon sti pink springs, I won't be finding out for sure. I am disappointed that I can't get any more data than this (even Peaty's numbers seem weird as the spring rates he quoted are different than what others are quoting, and I've found 2 sources with different lengths). So I really don't know what to say. I am just disappointed that I can't figure out what the actual results would be of FSTi pinks on my WRX wagon (or an impreza wagon in general), but oh well. Maybe someone, someday...

[DoSomethingGreat]

Yeah, I hear what your saying. I had a really hard time finding info on those springs as well. If you want, I have the OBS springs sitting in my garage right here in SugarHouse. You can grab them if you want but the rears are the 02-03 style top hats. Of coarse I also have the top hats too so not much of a big deal there. I will probably end up throwing them out eventually any way. I might just keep my eyes peeled for a used set of the forester sti pink springs on the forester forums. If I find them for a cheap price I will grab them and give it a try. If it doesn't work then I could just resell them for what I paid to some guy with a forester pretty easy.

If the wagon specific pink springs are shorter then the sti take offs I would not go there. My car would be really low with just my sedan sti take offs if it weren't for the jackson rally lift/spacers. Unless you want you car lowered of coarse. Almost all those aftermarket springs are for road racer types. Also remember that when comparing springs on different models that the spring perches are welded o0n at different spots to obtain the desired ride height for the different models. In other words, it not just the spring length/stiffness.

Also fyi, the sti take off springs are pretty freaking stiff. I would definitely not want anything stiffer then those things if you plan on driving on rough roads.

Jeremy

[DoSomethingGreat]

Hey Erik,
Sorry but I stalked your name a bit. We should meet up to compare subie notes and do some mtn biking once it warms up.

Jeremy

[Kampfzentrum]

Hey, I don't mean to thread jack, but I am kind of in the same situation theoretically. See, I am starting to purchase parts for the spring to do one big install. Right now I am putting together:

'04 USDM STi springs (rate: front/224, rear/194)
Group N front/rear top hats
Saggy Butt Spacers (I have a wagon too)
Tokico adj. D-specs

Do you forsee there being any problem with this setup? I'll be honest, I've tried to look up "bump stop" and "spring rates" online and cannot find anything - leaving me in the dark on any potential issues that might come along during the install.

Any help would be appreciated.

[DoSomethingGreat]

Don't forget camber bolts for the back since those struts are designed for the sedan. I didn't need the bolts because I got the GR-2 wagon struts. Also, if those struts are for the 02-03 model year you will need the small spacer washers to adapt them to the 04 and up top hats in the back.

Jeremy

[sixTOO]

Hey, I don't mean to thread jack, but I am kind of in the same situation theoretically. See, I am starting to purchase parts for the spring to do one big install. Right now I am putting together:

'04 USDM STi springs (rate: front/224, rear/194)
Group N front/rear top hats
Saggy Butt Spacers (I have a wagon too)
Tokico adj. D-specs

Do you forsee there being any problem with this setup? I'll be honest, I've tried to look up "bump stop" and "spring rates" online and cannot find anything - leaving me in the dark on any potential issues that might come along during the install.

Any help would be appreciated.

Late with a response, but I thought I'd post because the info could be useful to someone:


You're not going to have any problems with this setup. In fact, this is a pretty ideal setup if you're going to autoX on tarmac. If you're on DI, I'm guessing you want a bit more ride height--and this setup wont help....it'll probably net you a 1/2 inch drop. Have a look at the link below from a project I did in 2007 with the help of the guys on NASIOC:

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/4016/driversidespringcomparoub2.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=driversidespringcomparoub2.jpg)

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1449/passengersidespringcompvn5.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=passengersidespringcompvn5.jpg)

Your setup is pretty close to the Koni STi wagon spring setup I had. One thing to understand about 04-07 STi takeoff springs on a GD chassis wagon is that you get the "saggy butt" syndrome. Paranoid Fab came up with a solution to this by making spacers (ultimately cheaper when paired with STi takeoff springs when compared to STi specific wagon springs). Notice my stock center hub to fender measurements--stock compared to STi wagon springs. Your ride height will be somewhere near those numbers if you use some saggy butt spacers. One other thing to keep in mind is that, other than in color, the STi wagon specific springs for the GD wagons and the 04-07 USDM STi takeoff springs are functionally the same....it's the STi rear springs that are different. Given that you've got a wagon, you're going to have low negative camber because you're using sedan struts (Dspecs). Your best bet is to go with camber plates, something like the Whiteline ComC tophats, or some form of sedan control arm.....if you go the route of the sedan control arm, keep in mind that you'll be losing tire to fender clearance up front because you'll be increasing the track by 10mm on each side.

Given the adjustable dampening level of the Dspecs that you're asking about, and the moderate spring rate of the STi springs, you have a setup that is matched nicely. In fact, people have reported successful handling in tarmac AND gravel prepped Imprezas.

I alluded to the added ride height above. Since this is DI, I suspect that you want to have some fun riding in the dirt. You've made a good decision on struts because the Dspecs are pretty tough. Also, the STi spring rates are generally like from guys who actually rally. I think this will be a good setup with summer tires, or great with gravel tires and some kind of a spacer (Jackson Rally or Subtle).




.....now, if I could only get my hands on some Forester STi springs...

[trans4m]

If you want to sell your OBS springs, let me know. I think that's just what I want for my wrx wagon.