Rallyx "track day"?

[chimchimm5]

Is this a viable concept?

Setup a venue just like a rallyx event. However, instead of having it scheduled like a autox, schedule it like a track day event. This is where each participant pays a substantially larger amount (ie $150-250) which translates to significantly fewer participants and significantly more driving time. You could still require people to work flags/cones.

A buddy and I are looking for a venue like this. We'd happily shell out a couple hundred bucks (or more) to get more dirt time. But we want it to be safe, legal, and due to stranger participation insured.

Furthermore, track days (if enough participation takes place) are "profitable". Something like this would seem to be able to make up the expenses for the organizer and fulfill a void in current available venues.

[chimchimm5]

Alternatively, we're trying figure out how to rent private property, prep it, and run it ourselves privately.

[UP2MTNS]

we did something like this last year....at PC, they ran a rallyX on a sunday w/a 'practice day' on that Saturday. The pricing was a lot lower, but w/something like $125/day/competitor, that would be more feasible.

I just don't know if people would be willing to pay that much.

[ZED E85]

I could see carging that much for something more akin to a mini-rally stage, kind of halfway between a rallyx track and a stage where you could expect to hit 60-70 mph (those of you that have had the priviledge of running the cal city shakedown track know what I'm talking about)

The question then would be how fast can you go on dirt before insurance/general safety of the driver would require a cage?

[chimchimm5]

we did something like this last year....at PC, they ran a rallyX on a sunday w/a 'practice day' on that Saturday. The pricing was a lot lower, but w/something like $125/day/competitor, that would be more feasible.

I just don't know if people would be willing to pay that much.

My buddy and I for two would pay that much.

And you'll need far fewer to participate. In fact, if the organizer of the rallyx wants to hold it the day before a regular rallyx, we'd be there.

[Tim.Flat4]

I would pay for something like that but if I'm shelling out $200 for a day in the dirt there is no way in hell I'm working the course. I would volunteer to work it if I couldn't run it, but I won't do both at that price.

[UP2MTNS]

I would pay for something like that but if I'm shelling out $200 for a day in the dirt there is no way in hell I'm working the course. I would volunteer to work it if I couldn't run it, but I won't do both at that price.

my thoughts exactly.....this brings me back to this thread/idea that I started:
http://www.dirtyimpreza.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10461


to avoid having 'workers' and picking up cones that other people knock down, you would need a real 'road' course....with natural features that defined the route (but safe enough, ie not a tree)

I keep coming back to the Ridgecrest, CA facility...but now we're getting into higher speeds, and even for a rally sprint = needs cage.


a rallyX needs to stay below 60mph.

[Tim.Flat4]

I really like that idea because I too can't shell out $4k to go to Oneil's school.

[WAM]

As far as more dirt time for more bucks goes, couldn't you just put on a practice rallycross and charge by the run? And if you want longer stints behind the wheel, make it a loop course and run as many laps at a time as you want to pay for.

[UP2MTNS]

As far as more dirt time for more bucks goes, couldn't you just put on a practice rallycross and charge by the run? And if you want longer stints behind the wheel, make it a loop course and run as many laps at a time as you want to pay for.

yes and no.

no, because I'd want a minimum charge at least to guarantee $$ coming in and the event doesn't loose money.

Whether its a full rallyX or a "track day", or a school....even a 'cheap venue' like PC still needs $1000 deposit, $100 permit fee, +$400 for UR equipment, plus EMT needs to be there@$25/hr, plus $8-12/competitor for SCCA insurance...whether we do 1 run/person, or 20.

yes, because as long as we break even (about $1000-$1200) then everyone can go hog while. So if we get 5 people paying ~$240 each, then we're good to go.

[chimchimm5]

yes and no.

no, because I'd want a minimum charge at least to guarantee $$ coming in and the event doesn't loose money.

Whether its a full rallyX or a "track day", or a school....even a 'cheap venue' like PC still needs $1000 deposit, $100 permit fee, +$400 for UR equipment, plus EMT needs to be there@$25/hr, plus $8-12/competitor for SCCA insurance...whether we do 1 run/person, or 20.

yes, because as long as we break even (about $1000-$1200) then everyone can go hog while. So if we get 5 people paying ~$240 each, then we're good to go.

My buddy and I would sign up. That's 2.

[noisycricket]

What about post-rallycross fun runs?

WOR and OVR both do this for a buck a run while T&S is figuring up the results.

[chimchimm5]

What about post-rallycross fun runs?

WOR and OVR both do this for a buck a run while T&S is figuring up the results.

I'm looking into this, but locally the rallyx venues around here tend to get pretty rutted up. So they usually run the trucks to smooth the ground after the runs are done. That doesn't leave much time for many runs. Plus, it's usually so crowded that just running through the day makes the official runs not end till past 5 or 6.

[Gravel Crew Rally Team]

I will chime in and say that it will be very difficult to do your Rallyx track day and make it worth it for the $150-$250. I am not saying to not do it or trying to keep you from trying it.
It is difficult because I know what it costs to rent land, water truck, grader, timing. And I know that there are other organizers here that will agree on what it costs to run an event. There are quite a few organizers including GC that have lost thousands of $ to run events.
And I don't think each driver will actually get more time on the course. Only because of watering and grading that needs to be done to keep the course intact and safe at the same time. Road courses don't have to maintain much except for the ocassional off.
Like I said, I am not trying to stop you from trying just givin you some actual insight. I am sure some of the other organizers will put there 2 cents in as well.

[UP2MTNS]

^^yeah, you guys had some crazy venue fees.....

[Jard]

This is what a "Rally Sprint" should be, but it should be on decent roads and have at least organizer supplied notes. If your course isn't breaking a few miles, it's not worth it.

edit: And a few of the local guys organize "test days" at Summit Point in WV for about that cost, but due to Summit Point's insurance it's open to caged/logbooked cars only.

[rallyimprezive]

I attended a Gravel Crew rally-x YEARS ago. It was at the paintball facility..can't remember the name.

Anyway, after the event was over, people were just looping back over and over again to go through the course. The course got really chewed up and started causing damage to some cars. Prep is important for the safety of the driver and the car. I cant imagine any way to keep the course in good shape without huge additional costs.

Nothing against GC by the way. That was the most fun I have ever had in car.


EDIT: If there was a way to make it work though, id shell out $150 for a full day. And id be willing to volunteer too.

[mcraewrx]

i guess i'm lucky. in NC there's a track we hang out at regularly. usually subarus only. Unlimited runs cost 1 case of beer. But even with all the time i;ve spent on said course i still suck as a driver. someday i'll learn.

[mcraewrx]

So far the longest i;ve driven off rooad would be 15 minutes. I think. It was about 18 laps of the course and I had to stop. I was getting tired and making many mistakes. i dunno how the WRC guy can drive 35kms full speed without any mistakes. They are gods@@

[UP2MTNS]

so, at Novemberfest I got an idea for a pretty cool rallyX event....it'll be experiment, but very different....fast....but not too fast.

price range will be in the 125-$150 range, it'll be lots of seat time....competition....invite only (no rookies), and entries capped....30 people max.

Venue will be Prairie City....watch for it.....

[chimchimm5]

so, at Novemberfest I got an idea for a pretty cool rallyX event....it'll be experiment, but very different....fast....but not too fast.

price range will be in the 125-$150 range, it'll be lots of seat time....competition....invite only (no rookies), and entries capped....30 people max.

Venue will be Prairie City....watch for it.....

:gigantic dancing banana:

about what month would this take place? I need to get this in as a "christmas present" from the wife.

[pomspeed]

Jon, so it sounds like added expense will be needed for NASA insurance, as SCCA won't be able to sanction this. I'm still all for this idea as Dave Haws started a thread last year? PC is the perfect site, like Gorman with the rally event with only EMT's required for "safety".

http://www.dirtyimpreza.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3609&highlight=rallysprint

The "best" way I've said in the past is to tie in a rallycross school and a rallycross event with it. Pay structure will vary, but it'll also generate the best "ladder" effect. Biggest reason, rollcages.

[UP2MTNS]

Jon, so it sounds like added expense will be needed for NASA insurance, as SCCA won't be able to sanction this.

not sure what you mean, since I haven't really told anyone what I'm going to do (and to be honest, I'm not even 100% sure of the format myself, at this point)?




Not all RallyX courses have to be super tight/twisty/1st gear courses, Brent ;)


but for the record, whatever I do, it will be within either SCCA RallyCross guidlines, or NASA rallycross guidelines.



Maybe the 'no newbies' rule is sending the wrong message, but as event organizer, I can change certain aspects (aka: Supplemental Regulations) as I see fit.

there's a specific reason for the 'no newby' rule...but that's part of the surprise. When I publicize it, it'll make sense...its just an 'enough time in the day' thing.


I'm planning on having results done right away and trophies given away that day as well. :)



EDIT: I just looked at your link...no, this will NOT be a rally sprint.

[pomspeed]

I keep coming back to the Ridgecrest, CA facility...but now we're getting into higher speeds, and even for a rally sprint = needs cage.
a rallyX needs to stay below 60mph.

Sorry, I was referring to what you said above. I'm all for the idea of "going faster" Prairie City is just a hard place to do that.

Also, the best way to make the most of the $100 fee doesn't have to be "per event". If all the planned rallycross events for 2010 at Prairie City can be determined at one time, they will only charge $100. ie a series at PC will split that fee.

Also, if I'm one of the lucky ones to get to do this, of course I'm there.

[UP2MTNS]

Sorry, I was referring to what you said above. I'm all for the idea of "going faster" Prairie City is just a hard place to do that.

Also, the best way to make the most of the $100 fee doesn't have to be "per event". If all the planned rallycross events for 2010 at Prairie City can be determined at one time, they will only charge $100. ie a series at PC will split that fee.

Also, if I'm one of the lucky ones to get to do this, of course I'm there.

well, not THAT fast (like, over the SCCA limits for a rallyX)...but I've got a few good ideas to make it (safely) faster and a bit longer, all in the same 4x4 area.


I think getting a few dates down ASAP and getting them all done under one permit is a great idea. My event won't be part of any series/points though because again, not open to newbs, and I'm thinking of doing something different with classes 'for the day.'


I know for my event, I'll need to wait until the CRS stage rally schedule is finalized, as I'll be competing in most of those events and won't want to do anything back to back to back.