How many members of Dirty Impreza are SCCA members?

[Drew84]

Well whos a Member?

[Ty Ty]

*raises hand*

[UP2MTNS]

Not I.

I was gonna join for the 2007 season, until I found out out the local San Fran SCCA chapter dropped all rally cross events. Forcing me to drive all over the west coast to get some dirt time.

[I Like It Sideways]

I was... I still have to renew my membership.
So dangit. I lose.

[Tommy Gun Rally]

I am. I expire at the end of the month and won't renew.

(Even though I'm a safety steward and former divisional steward).

[Drew84]

I our region, NER you save alot of money, about $10 an event. Add that up over 5 to 6 events or more. Thats alot. I recomend it to everyone, plus you get discounts on magazines and Hotels, rental cars etc. I joined before I turned 21, first gear membership. It was 45 dollars, that was 3 years ago, they still charge me 45 dollars every year!

[Blix666]

:waving:

oh and drew, i just emailed SCCA about that glitch, so it'll be taken care of and they're gonna retroactive all the money you owe them for the last few years. :wink:

[Drew84]

NOOOO!!!!!

[409industries]

I was.. but then i didnt renew my membership.

[BlueRu]

I am not yet. If we got a few rally events nearer to me I would really think about it.

[Not All There]

ill be joining for 08

[WRR]

I was for years but I didn't renew after the SCCA dropped out of rally.. (my own little one person protest I guess).. then I reupped a few years ago when it seemed that they had gravel interest again... only to let it expire again after I realized that they really didn't (at least in SoCal anyway)

a nice magazine and stuff but a little expensive and almost all auto-x at this point - not that that is bad it just isn't me :?

so the answer is...... no

[Drew84]

Well thankfully out in the New England Region we've got a dedicated group of people to put on rally-xs.

[UP2MTNS]

Well thankfully out in the New England Region we've got a dedicated group of people to put on rally-xs.

Cali has a great group as well, the SCCA just chooses not to participate in helping to organize events anymore for some reason.

CRS class rules FTW!!!

[subyspawn]

no..

doesn't do much for us heree in SoCAL

[katnip]

me, me, me. I'm an NER safety steward and unofficial rallycross registrar. In the New England Region, if you are running all events, it pays to be a member, just from the money saved for each event. Besides, if you plan on running for trophies for the season points, you need to be a member!

[Blix666]

Besides, if you plan on running for trophies for the season points, you need to be a member!

i did not know this...YAY!

[WRR]

kinda funny how on the east coast SCCA is involved and being a member makes sense..


and on the west coast we have Calif. Rally Series and Formula Rally-X and being a SCCA member doesn't really matter..


:|

[kreitz3]

I am a member through the end of the year and I will renew. I am in the running for the Rally Prep AWD class in the Western Ohio Region. Last year's Stock AWD champion.

[Drew84]

Its not even really an East Coast, West Coast thing, I've noticed its really more like New England, SoCal thing. Other than a few spatterings in the Midwest these seem like the only places Rally-x is alive and well.

[Weasel Rallysports]

Chalk me up with a yes. Also Rally America regional co-driver license.

[rallycrosser58]

I am, with the understanding of how things get done in the organization. Volunteering.

Granted if anyone has had the opportunity to go the main office in Topeka and talk with some of the staff, you quickly learn how some think of it as their 9 to 5 job. Good and bad.

To make matters worse, I am in the largest region in the country, and to quote our RE "I won't support a program so 12 PEOPLE can play with their cars in the dirt."

Yet I still hold a membership because I believe in the idea that this sport is in its infancy and it will grow.

[Drew84]

^ What, thats a crap answer. Thats how support grows.

[rallycrosser58]

I'm not sure what your reply implies. All of the events that have been put on since 2002 in the San Francisco Region has been with the slightest support of the region. I guess the people you mentioned in your region are all scca members?

BTW, this area has been home to possibly the highest average attendance since 2002, in the nation. Our RE had failed to recognize this since our regions autocross program flourishes with attendance regularly at 300/event.

[BorkedWRX]

nope, was (with that free year membership we got with our WRXs, does subaru still do that?) but never renewed

[ankyle62]

not i. i havent had a chance to go to any events and i dont even know where any events are close by to san diego

[SoCalBoomer]

ankyle - closest to SD are NASA events in Glen Helen (San Bernadino) and SCCA events in Johnson Valley.

I am an SCCA member (got a free year's membership at the 2006 Nat'l Challenge) but will likely not be renewing. I was the SoPac Divisional RallyCross Steward but I resigned over forced (starting 1/1/08 ) membership policies and increased costs to organizers or non-members.

[noisycricket]

I'm a member (huh, he said "member") thanks to the generosity of an SCCA member on whose rallycross rental-mobile I donated some parts and time and brain-power. So if you lose to The Altima, it's my fault that it runs so good :)

But he said that because of where I live, I have to be in NEOhio region, not WOR region. Jeez, just because I have to drive *through* two or three regions to get to where I compete doesn't mean I don't want that to be my "home" region, even though I maybe can't make it to meetings or such...

[Drew84]

Here is a Damn Good reason to join in New England, not my words by the way.

From the NER RallyX mailing list:
*************************************************

Greets all,

There's been a lot of buzz floating around about the membership changes.
Thought I would post what's actually going on in an effort to kill off
some of the rumor mill. ;-)

As of January 1st, 2008 (so beginning with the Stafford event) you will
need to have some form of a membership to compete in SCCA Solo, Road
Rally and Rallycross events. Personally, I'm surprised it's lasted this
long as non-member participation has to be driving up the cost of
insurance. This is one of the biggest reasons ever other major club has
had this requirement for years.

However, the folks at SCCA corporate have come up with a way to make
this change pretty painless. Also on Jan. 1st they will be introducing a
new "Weekend" membership. This means you can walk in off the streets as
a non-SCCA member, sign up on the spot and drive the event. Same as you
always have if you are a non-member.

So here are the noticeable changes folks will see at NER RallyX events:

* Regular SCCA members will receive an additional $5 discount beyond the
discount they have received in the past.
* Weekend SCCA members will still pay the same entry fee they always
have as "non-members".
* Weekend SCCA members will have a bit more paperwork to fill out to
register for events.
* Weekend SCCA members will receive a $15 coupon that can be applied
towards the cost of regular membership.
* The coupons will be good for 60 days, and you can combine two coupons
for a total of $30 off the cost of full membership (Currently $85 in New
England, so knock that down to $55 with the coupons).
* Weekend members will receive a copy of Sports Car Magazine as well as
other regional and promotional info.

So, compare that to what we have now and full members will be seeing a
discount while weekend members will be getting a lot more for their
money. Think it will be a good deal all the way around.

Please feel free to circulate this info and point folks to me if they
have any additional questions.

See ya' all in a few weeks! Get in those entry forms!
Chris Brenton
NER RallyX Chairman
--
cbrenton@chrisbrenton.org

[Blix666]

WOW....that's awesome. perhaps i should've waited a few more months to sign up!

[Drew84]

Regular members now get $15 dollars off, very cool.

[SoCalBoomer]

A couple of things:

First, it's spin.

Second, NASA does not require membership for those participating in their RallyX events.

Third, SCCA members generally already GOT discounts - and the organizers used the extra charged to non-members to offset normal operating costs. Now that extra margin is gone, off to National ($5) and to the Region ($10). This is why my events will no longer be SCCA events - I can't afford it. I netted (NETTED) $12 at GH3. I never received any support (or even acknowledgment) from my region (the Asst. RE still doesn't realize that we DID RX's. . .)

Fourth, the Weekend Membership already existed - it was FREE. Now it's $15 for each weekend (you can put 2 of them toward a regular membership.)

Fifth, the Weekend Membership was only needed at Divisional/National events - Regional events didn't need them.

Sixth, we already paid full insurance. NASA gives full insurance, member or not. This argument is spin only.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's spin. It's marketing. The flat, no bull story is this:

Memberships are now REQUIRED at all SCCA events.
Weekend Memberships are now $15, up from $0.
There are NO additional benefits for this increase in cost - the money goes to National and Regional, NOT to the event.
If this means that non-members are now covered, then it means that they were NOT covered before - a liability that was not explained and does not exist with NASA.
It also means that the event organizers are now the Collection Agents for the SCCA. SCCA is still saying to participants, "you'll pay - you may pay now,
or you may pay later. . .but you'll still pay."

SportsCar is an SCCA Magazine - you won't see coverage of anything else, and you'll see MAYBE one story every other month on RallyCross (if you're lucky.) Nothing about Rally, nothing about anything other than Solo.

From one of my emails to interested parties:
I said it a few months ago, and I'll say it again. Instead of forcing
memberships upon our participants (whether they're "free" or not) and
giving them a magazine that is primarily stuff that my participants
aren't interested in (not much about dirt in SC. . .) why look to see
what people actually want in an SCCA membership? Stuff like insurance
doesn't sell. A mag like SC doesn't sell a membership (especially
since there are better mags out there). "Free" weekend memberships
that cost them and the organizer money doesn't help.

Why doesn't someone actually ASK the members what they want? You know,
it could be something as simple as free stickers, free number-things
for their cars (you know, the box that you stick the numbers in. .
.mind block on my end, sorry), maybe a DVD of the National Challenge
(or equivalent in their field. . .) . . .

If you provide perceived value (which MUST rely upon the perceiver. .
.) you might not NEED to force it upon participants and to make
organizers your collections agents.

collect members with a stick, and you won't have real members.
collect them with a carrot, and they're yours for a long time.

hmmm, catchy.

Mike Malsed
Former SoPac Divisional RallyCross Steward (SCCA)
Organizer Glen Helen RXSchool, GH1, GH2, GH3, Laughlin
Co-Organizer Antioch 1,2
RallyX Chair - California Rally Series Board of Governors

[katnip]

below is why it pays to be an SCCA member at SCCA sanctioned events.

This insurance provides coverage at various limits for the following categories of participants that are
injured in event-related accidents at SCCA or SCCA Pro events.


A. Coverage Participant Limits red is non member, yellow is member
Medical Reimbursement (Excess) $10,000 $1,000,000
Accidental Death $ 5,000 $ 25,000
Dismemberment by schedule up to $ 5,000 $ 10,000
Loss of Work None $100 per wk for 104
weeks with a 7-day
waiting period

one more reason membership pays :mrgreen:

[SoCalBoomer]

No difference at all between member or non-member with NASA - coverage is the same - and is the same or more as the member amount for SCCA. I just checked the cert I got for Glen Helen last year.

By the way - Exc listed on Medical Reimbursement does not Excess, it means Excluded. That's a liability coverage, not a medical coverage. It's in case a participant sues. Common misconception.

NASA Accidental Death - $1 mil
NASA Personal Injury - $1 mil
NASA General Agg - $1 mil
it goes on. . .


On another note - insurance doesn't sell memberships. It makes a great JUSTIFICATION for being a member, but it doesn't persuade people to join. Okay - it would persuade the most responsible of us, but how many of us are that responsible? :lol:

[Rallycat66]

By the way - Exc listed on Medical Reimbursement does not Excess, it means Excluded. That's a liability coverage, not a medical coverage. It's in case a participant sues. Common misconception.

Mike - Katnip is right - "Excess" is the correct term.

http://www.scca.com/documents/insurance/2007%20Summary%20of%20SCCA%20Participant%20Acciden t%20Coverage.pdf

What that means is that it is Medical Coverage that takes effect above and beyond what your personal medical coverage covers. If you have no medical insurance, then the SCCA coverage become primary. It is not a liability policy.

Honestly, this whole Weekend Membership thing is getting blown way out of proportion. As a "non-member" attending an New England Region, SCCA Rally-x next year (I can't speak for other regions), the only difference that you'll see is that you'll have one extra piece of paper at registration (we may even fill that in for you ahead of time so all you have to do is sign it) and you'll get membership recruitment information in the mail after the event. SCCA is a membership based club and all they are really doing is trying to get more people to become members.

Tim
NER, SCCA Rally Chairman

[Drew84]

My point is, Here in our region the biggest benifit I see is paying less for events. I've done about 10 auto-xs this year and 2 rally-x which means I've saved at least $120 dollars this season. The insurance is a nice added bonus for piece of mind.

[SoCalBoomer]

Around here, it's an additional burden on organizers.

I already give a bonus to SCCA or CRS members, so for me to absorb even more (make an additional effective discount but hidden within the organizer's budget) makes it so that I can't break even.

So it's either charge non-members more or make the organizers suck it up. I've always ridden a very low margin. . .

I am sorry - on the insurance forms I've been given, they've said Excluded, not Excess. . . sorry about that. Mea Culpa.

However, I was responding specifically to this detritus being given as a specific reason TO BECOME an SCCA member.

It's akin to the mayor of LA saying that voting to drop an illegal tax of 10% down to 9% is a tax cut, when the vote would increase the tax UP TO 9% (since the 10% is going away by court order, and will likely be refunded.) It's not a reason to join, since the weekend membership WAS FREE and WILL BE $15.

But, you know, if you want me to keep my mouth closed when someone calls crap a rose. . .sorry - not gonna happen. :D

Mike Malsed
Former SoPac Divisional RallyCross Steward (SCCA)
Organizer Glen Helen RXSchool, GH1, GH2, GH3, Laughlin
Co-Organizer Antioch 1,2
RallyX Chair - California Rally Series Board of Governors

[UP2MTNS]

As a "non-member" attending an New England Region, SCCA Rally-x next year (I can't speak for other regions), the only difference that you'll see is that you'll have one extra piece of paper at registration

but, what about the $15 for 'weekend membership'?

[Rallycat66]

As a "non-member" attending an New England Region, SCCA Rally-x next year (I can't speak for other regions), the only difference that you'll see is that you'll have one extra piece of paper at registration

but, what about the $15 for 'weekend membership'?

$15 is the "face value" -- there is nothing that has come out saying that the region has to charge that specific amount. The only thing that really has to be taken into consideration when you budget the event is the $5 per "weekend member" that has to go to National.

For NER, we already have a $10 or $15 differential for members/non-members (depends on the event, where it is, expected member/non-member turn outs, etc), so we don't expect a significant change in how we handle things next year.

Tim

[UP2MTNS]

As a "non-member" attending an New England Region, SCCA Rally-x next year (I can't speak for other regions), the only difference that you'll see is that you'll have one extra piece of paper at registration

but, what about the $15 for 'weekend membership'?

$15 is the "face value" -- there is nothing that has come out saying that the region has to charge that specific amount. The only thing that really has to be taken into consideration when you budget the event is the $5 per "weekend member" that has to go to National.

For NER, we already have a $10 or $15 differential for members/non-members (depends on the event, where it is, expected member/non-member turn outs, etc), so we don't expect a significant change in how we handle things next year.

Tim

ah, ok...the way its being communicated here (Mike, correct me if I'm wrong) is that being a non-member isn't an option anymore. Next year anyone running at an SCCA event HAS to be a member.

[WRR]

yes Jon, ^^ that is correct but plz don't let this thread die yet - it was just getting good

[rollo]

As a "non-member" attending an New England Region, SCCA Rally-x next year (I can't speak for other regions), the only difference that you'll see is that you'll have one extra piece of paper at registration

but, what about the $15 for 'weekend membership'?

$15 is the "face value" -- there is nothing that has come out saying that the region has to charge that specific amount. The only thing that really has to be taken into consideration when you budget the event is the $5 per "weekend member" that has to go to National.

For NER, we already have a $10 or $15 differential for members/non-members (depends on the event, where it is, expected member/non-member turn outs, etc), so we don't expect a significant change in how we handle things next year.

Tim

ah, ok...the way its being communicated here (Mike, correct me if I'm wrong) is that being a non-member isn't an option anymore. Next year anyone running at an SCCA event HAS to be a member.

So everyone has to officially be a member, but how that membership is paid for is up to the organiser? And/or, the local SCCA can choose not to charge their share (the ten bucks) for certain events? Interesting. Seems like the rule is being interpreted (or explained) differently by different folks.

[Rallycat66]

As a "non-member" attending an New England Region, SCCA Rally-x next year (I can't speak for other regions), the only difference that you'll see is that you'll have one extra piece of paper at registration

but, what about the $15 for 'weekend membership'?

$15 is the "face value" -- there is nothing that has come out saying that the region has to charge that specific amount. The only thing that really has to be taken into consideration when you budget the event is the $5 per "weekend member" that has to go to National.

For NER, we already have a $10 or $15 differential for members/non-members (depends on the event, where it is, expected member/non-member turn outs, etc), so we don't expect a significant change in how we handle things next year.

Tim

ah, ok...the way its being communicated here (Mike, correct me if I'm wrong) is that being a non-member isn't an option anymore. Next year anyone running at an SCCA event HAS to be a member.

Semantics -- that's why I hate the internet and e-mail :shootsself:

Starting January 1, 2008 you must be a member - YES. But, starting January 1, 2008, a new Weekend Membership program becomes available. One page form & $5 must be returned to National by the event commitee - this makes you an SCCA Member for the weekend.

So, a "non-member" will show up at registration for an NER Rally-x, will pay the same "non-member" - or whatever we end up renaming it - entry fee that we've always charged, but you'll now have to fill in one more piece of paper (if we haven't done it for you) to "become a member" for the weekend.

After the event, we send $5 and the form to National, you get an issue of Sports Car, promotional materials, and $15 good toward a full membership if used within 60 days. You can you up to 2 of these discounts toward a membership.

Does that help?

[Blix666]

ok....BOTTOM LINE...if you participate in more than 3 SCCA events per year...you'll save money by becoming a full time member.

[SoCalBoomer]

That's correct, as of 01-01-08, you MUST be an SCCA member to participate in ANY SCCA event.

What's at stake is where that $15 is dealt with (or, in the case where a region doesn't want their "cut", it's $5)

In the cases where the regions themselves run the events (like LVR or many in the NE) they easily absorb it since the events are run off a much larger budget/schedule. If they don't break even, the region makes up the difference, if the event makes money, the region profits - the organizers are "stewards" of the event.

For the independent events (like all of ours in SoCal) where our budgets come out of our own pockets, there is no place to absorb this cost.

And $5 IS REQUIRED by National - Regions get a $10 cut - and what regions aren't going to take advantage of that? :D But they can absorb that money however they want as I mentioned above.

However, I still see it as recruiting members with a stick:

Since you MUST become members to participate, here, we'll give you a $15 membership "for $5 (or for free)"

It's a method to boost membership numbers by force rather than by adding value (either perceived or real) TO the membership.

It's the primary reason why I resigned as SoPac Divisional Steward.

I will NEVER EVER require memberships in my events - that goes for CRS memberships, NASA memberships, or any other memberships. If you want to come out, try RallyX, see if you like it. . . come on out! You don't have to be ANYTHING other than human! (well, driving age, with driver's license. . . ROFL

True, you'll get a discount if you're a CRS or NASA member - that's adding value to the membership! - but I'm never going to say that you MUST be a member and if you aren't, then you have to pay extra TO BE a member.

Spin? Yes, most definitely. But I'm not being deceptive with my spin. I'm not requiring anything and then trying to hide the cost somewhere or to say that this weekend membership is cheap. It WAS free, and now it costs money, you must fill out another form (you don't have to fill out a form at my events if you pre-reg), and now you'll start getting the SCCA junk-mail.

[SoCalBoomer]

ok....BOTTOM LINE...if you participate in more than 3 SCCA events per year...you'll save money by becoming a full time member.

Not really - you have to pay National and Regional fees so you get $30 discount from the Weekend Memberships applied to your National and Regional membership fees. Since National is $60 (for an individual membership) and Regional can be as high as $25, that's $85.

At $15, that would be 6 events before it became worth it to become an SCCA member, based upon $15/event.
At $5/event, it would be 17 events before it became worth it solely based upon cost.


And that's still not the "BOTTOM LINE" - the bottom line is how you get memberships.

[SoCalBoomer]

As a "non-member" attending an New England Region, SCCA Rally-x next year (I can't speak for other regions), the only difference that you'll see is that you'll have one extra piece of paper at registration

but, what about the $15 for 'weekend membership'?

$15 is the "face value" -- there is nothing that has come out saying that the region has to charge that specific amount. The only thing that really has to be taken into consideration when you budget the event is the $5 per "weekend member" that has to go to National.

For NER, we already have a $10 or $15 differential for members/non-members (depends on the event, where it is, expected member/non-member turn outs, etc), so we don't expect a significant change in how we handle things next year.

Tim

ah, ok...the way its being communicated here (Mike, correct me if I'm wrong) is that being a non-member isn't an option anymore. Next year anyone running at an SCCA event HAS to be a member.

Semantics -- that's why I hate the internet and e-mail :shootsself:

Starting January 1, 2008 you must be a member - YES. But, starting January 1, 2008, a new Weekend Membership program becomes available. One page form & $5 must be returned to National by the event commitee - this makes you an SCCA Member for the weekend.

So, a "non-member" will show up at registration for an NER Rally-x, will pay the same "non-member" - or whatever we end up renaming it - entry fee that we've always charged, but you'll now have to fill in one more piece of paper (if we haven't done it for you) to "become a member" for the weekend.

After the event, we send $5 and the form to National, you get an issue of Sports Car, promotional materials, and $15 good toward a full membership if used within 60 days. You can you up to 2 of these discounts toward a membership.

Does that help?

In other words, your events are run by the region and you can absorb the additional moneys into your entry fees and discounts as they exist now.

The events in California are not run by the regions (SFR or CalClub) so we have no additional budgets with which to absorb the extra cost.

[Rallycat66]

So everyone has to officially be a member, but how that membership is paid for is up to the organiser? And/or, the local SCCA can choose not to charge their share (the ten bucks) for certain events? Interesting. Seems like the rule is being interpreted (or explained) differently by different folks.

Ding, Ding, Ding -- We have a winner! :tongue:

This whole thing is being mis-communicated all over the place. I was on the phone with Pego Mack the same night that this came out trying to figure out what the deal was and I no longer see it being an issue for our (NER's) events.

You are probably going to see several different ways that this will get presented and "spun" by the various regions, but bottom line is that a form and $5 needs to go to National within X days after the event for anyone that is not a card carrying member when they walk up to the registration table at an event.

From what I have seen, there is no "Region's share" of the Weekend Membership like there is with a Full Membership. So, that additional $10 in the face value is a gray area. You local region will have to decide for themselves how to work with it.

[WRR]

um... this is getting clearer & clearer the more it goes on :shootsself:

[rollo]

My impression is that the more closely your SCCA region is involved with rallycross, the less impact the ruling has. This is why rallycrossers in different regions have such wildly differing viewpoints on the SCCA... for us out here in California, it always seems to mean hassle on the rare occasions they get involved (this is just my perception, having been around it for a few years). For you guys out on the East Coast, they seem to consider it an important part of their overall program, so you have a good impression of them.

However, given that there is "secondary control" at the regional level, it does seem to be somewhat questionable to hand down a national rule when you can't control how it will be enacted. Tim as you pointed out, SCCA is trying to expand their membership, but out here at least, they've pretty much ensured that rallycrossers won't become members - in fact if anything they've pushed people to the "competition" (NASA). Having said that, in all probability that's pretty minor compared to the increase in membership they're likely to get from doing the same thing for auto-x.

FWIW Here are my reasons (as an ordinary competitor) for being a CRS (California Rally Series) member:
a) That's the only way I can score points, thus giving my participation more of a meaning
b) I like to support rally locally
c) I save money on registration (not enough to pay for a membership but not far off)
d) The end-of-year banquet is pretty fun
e) Intangible sense of belonging :D

I guess those are the carrots of which Mike speaks.

Honestly while the CRS membership gives me the discount anyway, there's no real reason for me to become a member of anything else.

I think that cross-country communication at a grass-roots level can't be a bad thing though, as long as we keep it civil.

Phil

[Blix666]

a) That's the only way I can score points, thus giving my participation more of a meaning
b) I like to support rally locally
c) I save money on registration (not enough to pay for a membership but not far off)
d) The end-of-year banquet is pretty fun
e) Intangible sense of belonging :D


ditto

[rollo]

a) That's the only way I can score points, thus giving my participation more of a meaning
b) I like to support rally locally
c) I save money on registration (not enough to pay for a membership but not far off)
d) The end-of-year banquet is pretty fun
e) Intangible sense of belonging :D


ditto

except you belong to SCCA, right?

[Blix666]

yes i do. but i reap the same benefits you've listed.

[SoCalBoomer]

Phil - the difference in areas is at the organizer level.

In the NE, the organizers aren't specifically responsible for the events - they're run by the Regions. We saw what that CAN do at the first Del Mar event where the SD region came out IN FORCE with all of their stuff. It went quite well.

Compare to my events, where they go quite well, but there is no whole crew coming out to get things done. I come out the day before, set up the course, timing, etc. I own my cones and rent Jayson's; I own my computer and do my own programming; I rent the facility and water truck; basically, I do most of it myself. I'm NOT whining about it - it's just how it works. I get wonderful (WONDERFUL) help from friends. . . but it's definitely not the same as having the entire crew out.

But that does come at a cost - if the Region does it, it's the Region that profits (or loses) and has control. Since I don't know CalClub, I don't really have any reason to WANT them to profit or control my events. . .

Which means I'll stick with the greater insurance and freedom of NASA.

[Drew84]

NASA basicly doesn't exist on the East coast.

I don't care where the money goes, how its spent. As long as I spend ten dollars less every event. That makes me happy.

[Rallycat66]

NASA basicly doesn't exist on the East coast.

I don't care where the money goes, how its spent. As long as I spend ten dollars less every event. That makes me happy.

I'd qualify that and say "NASA basically doesn't exist in New England." The closest events that they run to us in in NY, but they are more active if you move further south.

Now I can see Mike's point - he's running the events as a promoter/organizer and the local region was only providing sanctioning and insurance. That does impact how the event is handled from a financial perspective - as in Mike is footing the bill. But, even in that case, you should be able to budget the costs accordingly if you are only dealing with SCCA. Adding CRS into the mix complicates things a bit, but even that can be accounted for. When you're budgeting your events, work that $5 into it and make good estimates on how many non-SCCA members you expect, and set your entry fees accordingly. It might work out to a couple of bucks extra per car in the worst case scenario.

We go through a budgeting exercise for each event that NER puts on (as well as an annual budget for equipment, promotion, championship trophies, etc). We work in all the expected expenses (which can vary wildly from site to site and even at the same site at different times of year) and estimate the number of competitors that we will get, taking time of year, location, and other events on the same or neighboring weekends into account. Mix that all together and we come up with the entry fee for that event. Hence, some events have $35 entry fees, others have $75 - 80 entry fees. It all depends on the financial estimates of that particular event. We have even rejected "good" sites because we simply couldn't get the numbers to work out correctly.

As for the SoCal BOD not knowing that they put on Rally-x or caring about it, it's your region - go slap them silly, speak your mind, and then DON'T RE-ELECT THEM! SCCA regions are only as good as the people that step up and take responsibility. Granted, most regions rally programs have an uphill battle because the region is heavily Club Racing oriented and getting rally folks on the board can be difficult, but it can be done. If enough rallyists start speaking their minds to the region's BOD, they will take notice.

And for the record, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the membership requirement next year. It is what it is and we can work with it without much impact on our events. SCCA is in the business of putting on events for it's membership (that is stated in the by-laws which can be found on SCCA.com), so the BOD has made a decision to move further toward that stated purpose and to try to track and convert event participants to members. That's how this club makes a lot of it's money to keep putting events on.

And Mike - any time that you find yourself in the NER area on an rally-x weekend, you've got a seat in my car for the event. In the end, it's all about getting out and playing in the dirt! 8)

Tim

[rollo]

Thing is, the only thing we (here) need a sanctioning body for is insurance purposes. That's it. No championships or recognition, no cones or timing, no venue assistance. Very few of us care who it is. So we have a simple choice - for practically identical benefits, go with the one that makes you charge $5 extra and do a bunch of paperwork, or go with the one that doesn't. It's simple business sense.

IMO there's absolutely zero chance of us affecting the elections. The SCCA SoPac region membership is ~5000; of the 145 CRS members, maybe 20 or 30 are regular rallycrossers. The other members are solely 'proper' rally, and therefore have no interest in the SCCA.

No slam on the SCCA, if I auto-xed regularly I'd be a member, no question, and I think they do a fine job with road racing. Just trying to explain the difference in perception. I certainly don't speak for everyone out here (or anyone actually, just me and my big mouth) - there are a few SCCA diehards who also rallycross, even organise rallycross, and I don't mean to disparage anyone.

My guess is that if we got some of the more influential auto-xers involved in rallycross, that the story might change. But for whatever reason, they don't seem to care that much, in fact some of them are openly hostile and dismissive. It's fine, we'll carry on regardless.

I honestly wonder if the difference is that out East you guys have dirty cars as a way of life... whereas here, if you wish, your car can be clean 365 days a year - including underneath :D

Alright well I've had way more than my 2 cents so I'll cram it now. Interesting discussion.

[Tommy Gun Rally]

Just buy a rally car and be done with this rallycross nonsense.

:D haha

[UP2MTNS]

I honestly wonder if the difference is that out East you guys have dirty cars as a way of life... whereas here, if you wish, your car can be clean 365 days a year - including underneath :D



huh? rust? Salt on the roads? Why do they do that? is the salt Kosher?

considering I grew up in VT, I know from experience....CA folks have no idea what goes on with cars in the NE regions. your car --> :punch: <--NE weather :mrgreen:

[SoCalBoomer]

RallyCat - I think you're missing my foundational point, though.

No other group that I know of requires membership for a casual event (two caveats - we don't require licensing like road racing or stage rally, and our regional events are supposed to be for recruiting/education/fun as opposed to Div/Nat events) - I could easily be wrong, but I don't know of them.

So why does SCCA mandate a weekend membership at $15 (or $5) for non-members who just want to come out, get sideways, and see if they like it or not? I actively encourage people to try it before they buy a membership in CRS or SCCA (CRS is only $30, so it's really reasonable) - if they like it, THEN spend the additional money.

Why does the SCCA push this whole thing on the organizers? We have to be their collection boy (or girl) . . .

And why is the SCCA promoting this as basically "Look, we're throwing in a $15 weekend membership in for $5" when it used to be FREE. Can they be honest about it?

In fact, we know why - SCCA membership is falling and this is a way to boost numbers. More and more people are seeing little perceived value in their membership, too much politics in their regions (which is why I won't go and "slap them silly" - I am running 5 events on my own, am the RallyX Chair for CRS, help run FormulaRallyX, and run RallyXPortal.com - I have zero time, energy, or interest to reform CalClub (which is legendary in its disfunctionality. . . :D ) )

This mandate puts the burden upon me, the organizer/promoter, to boost SCCA's flagging membership numbers artificially - by making me futz my budgets to absorb an artificial cost that doesn't benefit me at all, either as a member or as an organizer/promoter, and in fact would likely hurt me.

[Orion]

Member since 2001.

Solo Safety Steward since 2003
Rally Safety Steward since 2005
OVR Rally Chair since 2006

[Drew84]

I used to have a Members Only Jacket

[Blix666]

I used to have a Members Only Jacket

yoouuuuurgay

:wink:

[Drew84]

I was the last member

[Salvator Rizzo]

yay been a member for about 4 months or so

[Mister2]

I need to renew my membership :(

[SoCalBoomer]

So- a question has led me to resurrect this thread.

I just saw, from Utah's snow-rallyX (which looks very sweet - bummer that it's on the same weekend as the Ridgecrest school - at which I'm instructing so can't really skip out. . . :lol: ) that he's advertising the weekend memberships (at $15) as lasting for 90 days. . .

I had thought they were only good for that weekend. . . did something change?

[pomspeed]

Wow, and if it is extended 90 day temp membership. That could get you some contingency money worth buying the rest of the membership.

[SoCalBoomer]

Anyone?

[Orion]

Since I'm the local chair of Ohio Valley Region, I just got the forms in hand on Fri and we ran an event on Sat.

Temp memberships are good for any event for 5 days from date of issue. Not 90, sorry.

For the full membership, the form states $15 will be discounted for 60 days from date of issue. If you have paid for 2 temps within those 60 days you will get a maximum of $30 of credit toward a membership. ( I wouldn't wait until day 59 or 60 to get the discount if I were you!)

[robert.lshoc]

just joined a couple days ago

[SoCalBoomer]

Since I'm the local chair of Ohio Valley Region, I just got the forms in hand on Fri and we ran an event on Sat.

Temp memberships are good for any event for 5 days from date of issue. Not 90, sorry.

For the full membership, the form states $15 will be discounted for 60 days from date of issue. If you have paid for 2 temps within those 60 days you will get a maximum of $30 of credit toward a membership. ( I wouldn't wait until day 59 or 60 to get the discount if I were you!)

Thanks Orion - since I'm no longer "in the know" for SCCA stuff, I wanted to double check.

I appreciate it! :D

[pigpen]

just joined for my first rallyX season...always did temp memberships for events in the past.

[drumsjmt]

i was for 3 years but havn't had time to do any events so i didnt spend the money on renewing

[TMRRALLY]

I had a card that said I was a solo II auto X scca person of somesort. Got it when I did my one and only auto-X. I was told that I was over driving (drifting) my car and pretty much to never come back again.