Rallying in the carribean and US

[Logic]

Hey guys , i live in Barbados , here in the Caribbean we love rallying and i see that you guys in the US love it too, we have 3 big rallies a year , ours *Sol Rally Barbados* is the biggest in the Caribbean right now, it is tarmac , the other 2 are gravel and they are rally Trinidad and Rally Jamaica , so far 2 of those rallies are gone , those being Rally Barbados and Rally Trinidad . Rally Jamaica is in December .

What we do is that the clubs and organizers of each rally organize with a shipping line for cheaper rates and with hotels for cheaper rates so as with flights , do you think any of the organizers in the US would be interested in having some of our guys from the Caribbean come up and rally with you guys and would you guys be interested in coming to the Caribbean to rally?



Logic

[409industries]

I know the American guys would welcome the opportunity to run up against some of the ex-WRC cars for sure. (I'd definitely like to see how the top National level guys do against them). Now for getting people from here down to the islands... it would probably be on a case per case basis.

I know the Last Ditch Racing team did rally Jamaica before, if my memory serves me right...

[Jordanh]

i think that would be an awesome idea. new competitors coming over seas to run in the US events helps the sport on both ends. i was rather excited to when Patrik Sandell and Emil Axelsson came over to run the STPR. it was a bummer that they only got a handful of stages in before they DNF due to an engine failure. i'd love to see how the US guys ran against some "WRC" caliber cars. i wouldnt think any of the teams here would have the time, and money(except the 3-4 top teams) to run any events in bardados. although the december event might leave enough time for some?? should be interesting..

[ProRallyCodriver]

Patrik Sandell and Emil Axelsson came over to run the STPR. it was a bummer that they only got a handful of stages in before they DNF due to an engine failure.

They parked it at end of first stage, which was a Mickey Mouse Waste Management stage.

Find me a codriver gig for Jamica. Sure would beat Canadian winter rallies in all aspects except the cushy snowbanks.

[Logic]

Who would i need to speak to to organize an invitational event , we would relish the idea to bring the S12 up , there will be another S12 in the island soon and an 07 WRC focus as well.

[Logic]

I just sent an email to Rally america to see what they say.

[409industries]

Yeah per our conversation in the chatbox, be sure to get an email off to Mike Hurst and JB Niday.

[Logic]

i sent one , i will call them in the morning and see what they say

[Broken Motorsports]

Well that would be awesome to get a bunch of you guys up to compete in some real world cars.

By real world i mean the US and Canada are the only 2 countries not running what the rest of the world runs for rally cars.

[Logic]

Is it so hard to get info out of these guys?
This is 3 days and no reply to my email.

[rollo]

Yeah.. it is, they are few people with a lot to do. They'll have their hands full with X Games stuff at the moment as well. Maybe someone knows someone..

[Jordanh]

im sure this is going to be a newb question, as i dont follow the wrc at all. what is it about the wrc cars that they are so looked down upon in RA competition? is there something in the wrc rules that violates RA open class regulations?

i guess is what im getting it, is why dont you guys just register, show up, and compete?:oops:

[thewizard]

Sequential shifters are not allowed in open class which the WRC cars fit in!
It would not be very feasible to convert back to H-pattern. BTW, Believe it or not Open Class US cars produce almost as much power as WRC cars.

Logic; They might be away due to Independence day! If i were you I would email either JB Niday or Mike Hurst directly (If that is not what you did already)

[ProRallyCodriver]

For years the US and Canada had no rules for turbo restrictors when the rest of world did; and then at least a couple years w/ 40mm restrictors for Open cars while FIA rules were smaller. Bet Sprongls Audi would have matched up to any WRC spec car at during those years.

[RATechnology]

WRC Run a 34mm Restrictor. Group N (Production) Run a 32mm with it changing next year to 34mm.

I know when I was at Prodrive we spent a lot of time looking at the american market to see how as a company we could get more cars in there! It all basically comes down to your road car rules! Some one could correct me if I'm wrong? My understanding was you couldn't use a japanese homologated model, it had to have US type approval.

The gearbox in a current WRC is a paddle shift (The Subaru still use a H-Pattern, rather than a sequential) and costs around £60 - £80,000 for a unit. I standard gearbox or even a 'dogbox wouldn't cope with the torque of the engine. As being restricted they don't produce a huge amount of BHP it's the torque figures that make them so quick!

[Logic]

WRC Run a 34mm Restrictor. Group N (Production) Run a 32mm with it changing next year to 34mm.

I know when I was at Prodrive we spent a lot of time looking at the american market to see how as a company we could get more cars in there! It all basically comes down to your road car rules! Some one could correct me if I'm wrong? My understanding was you couldn't use a japanese homologated model, it had to have US type approval.

The gearbox in a current WRC is a paddle shift (The Subaru still use a H-Pattern, rather than a sequential) and costs around £60 - £80,000 for a unit. I standard gearbox or even a 'dogbox wouldn't cope with the torque of the engine. As being restricted they don't produce a huge amount of BHP it's the torque figures that make them so quick!

I think the S6 to the S9 were still sequential , *customer box not WRC Works box*

They startd letting you have the works box from the S10 or S11 i believe , when they changed the sftware to the TAG software. Those were the "H" pattern ones . I think.

[Jordanh]

The gearbox in a current WRC is a paddle shift (The Subaru still use a H-Pattern, rather than a sequential) and costs around £60 - £80,000 for a unit. I standard gearbox or even a 'dogbox wouldn't cope with the torque of the engine. As being restricted they don't produce a huge amount of BHP it's the torque figures that make them so quick!


whats the difference between the h-pattern and dog box? you say the subaru still uses an h-pattern, but isnt logic new steed a sequential transmission?


i'm a little foggy on what each is.. i thought i knew, but maybe not.

dog box- like what RA uses, shifting without the clutch..?

h-pattern - ??

sequential - wrc paddle shifter transmission?

[RATechnology]

whats the difference between the h-pattern and dog box? you say the subaru still uses an h-pattern, but isnt logic new steed a sequential transmission?


i'm a little foggy on what each is.. i thought i knew, but maybe not.

dog box- like what RA uses, shifting without the clutch..?

h-pattern - ??

sequential - wrc paddle shifter transmission?

Logic's new stead is an S12, I believe it was an Ex Irish car (is it the Ex Jack Sleator car?)

Hard to explain really but as mentioned earlier yes the early WRC cars use a sequential gear box, (similar to and in operation to a motorbike) pull back for up shifts and push forward to go down the gearbox. You have to go through each individual gear, you can't miss shift. (e.g go from 2nd to 4th)

The S12 and earlier S10, S11 cars use a H-pattern gearbox which uses a paddle shift on the sterring column. Each shift requires an actuator on the north south axis and east west. e.g when going up a gear from say 2nd to third the actuators must move the selectors both north and east to engage the next gear (not very good way of explaining it sorry) best way to look at it is to go to your road car and imagine the gear stick being moved automatically around the standard H-pattern (you won't see this on the rally car as it's all done internally and via a paddle shift) which uses hydralics and an expensive TAG ecu!

This method was used due to reliability and the ability to skip gears (e.g if you had a spin in 6th rather than the gearbox shift all the way through each gear it can select from 6th to 1st or netural) thus saving time going down the box and also it reduces the risk of damage to gears.

Dog box is merely a type of gearbox which instead of using syncro rings to help engage gears it uses what's know as dog teeth.

Right I hope that helps? And I'm not to far off the mark in explaining how these work? Logic may step in to give a better more detailed explanation if he desires?

Cheers
Gav

[Jordanh]

that helped me alot, thank you. on an h-pattern you can use the actual stick as a back up to shift gears if the paddles malfunction right? can you do this on the sequential?


only other thing im sort of foggy on is the differences between the s10,s11,s12. are they just different spec cars?:oops:

[Logic]

that helped me alot, thank you. on an h-pattern you can use the actual stick as a back up to shift gears if the paddles malfunction right? can you do this on the sequential?


only other thing im sort of foggy on is the differences between the s10,s11,s12. are they just different spec cars?:oops:

There is no stick in the S10 - S14 WRC subarus. For the customer cars from the S7 -S9 they used a stick in the car just in case you had a hydraulic failer , you can resort to manual , but the prob with them is that it had no lock out for reverse , so this means you can go straight down through the box through neutral to reverse without the lock out , but with the paddle it has an electronic
lock out.

The difference of the cars are immense , the S10 from the S11 was like the S11 had different uprights (they went from 5 stud to 4 stud ) wider track , diff and gearboxes , damper mounting points , more travel , revised roll cage i think the cams were chenged as well , intercooler and radiator position , cooling system soft ware upgrades , engine maps . Now the S11 to the S12 is different again , damper mounting , engine , intercooler and radiator position , i think the track was changed as well , roll cage , box and rear diff (the front and rear diffs in the 12 are passive and the center is active) .

[Logic]

Here is a video from Rally Jamaica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0egT_RQONxk

The incar is of my driver , Roger Skeete in the Subaru S9

[Logic]

spoke to some people today , the heads of all 3 clubs would be in jamaica for rally jamaica this year , i am hoping we could have a rep from the us to come over as well.