Newbie rally cross setup question [Archive]

03rallyrex

05-30-2009, 11:08 AM

I'm new to DI and I'm looking into building a light offroad/rally setup with my 03 Wrx and I was hoping you guy could give me a list of what I should do to begin this. I'm not sure where to start, i dont know what i should do first or whats most important so i would appreciate it if you guys could help me out. This is also gonna be my daily driver :headbang:

Thanks for your help in advance :mrgreen:

Draco-REX

05-30-2009, 02:00 PM

Assuming your car is stock:

Skidplates (http://www.get-primitive.com/)
Tires (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=Firestone&model=Winterforce)(205/55-16 or 205/60-16 for more clearance)

The stock suspension in the 03 is pretty good for RallyCross. I recommend driving on stock suspension at first until you know how you want to change it.

But if your suspension is not stock, or is too worn, I'd recommend getting:

Tokico D-Specs (http://www.turninconcepts.com/product_info.php?products_id=555)
STI Takeoff Springs (http://www.iwsti.com/forums/brakes-suspension-stiffening/163903-fs-norcal-05-sti-stock-springs.html) (Offer $50 +shipping)
And you'll need 04+ tophats; might as well get GroupN (https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=33_68&products_id=656)s

nkx

05-30-2009, 02:02 PM

tires and training!

i would recommend a set of a set of cheap snow tires to start out on. depending on the class you run, you may be able to step up to rally tires. make sure you inflate your tires to ~40 psi before you get on course.

some local clubs host their own rally schools. go to one if you can find one it. its a cheap and effective way to learn the basics and practice them. if that falls through, just sign up for a rallyx and talk to one of the more experienced people and get a few pointers, or ask for a ride-along. rallyx is pretty laid back, so most of the people will be willing to help you out.

a helmet is also a good thing to have, but it isnt always a necessity. lots of clubs have loaner helmets available. if you decide youre going to do this a lot, invest in your own lid so you dont have to share someone elses sweat on a hot summer day!

SoCalBoomer

05-30-2009, 05:00 PM

In California, don't jump to Snow Tires yet. We DO differentiate - Street Stock is any street tire short of a snow tire (go for the BFG Traction T/A or KDW-G) while hitting a snow tire will jump you to Street Modified.

Otherwise, your stock suspension is going to be fine. You'll get plenty of fun out of it.

Get your own helmet. Trust me - you want to wear your own sweat on your face! :D Just make sure it is SA or M rated - there will be a little sticker inside the helmet.

Biggest suggestion - ask a veteran to ride along with you to give you advice and, when we have test-and-tune days (we have them now and again at Prairie City or Vallejo), GO and have someone ride along with you. That voice in the seat next to you is priceless!

Welcome to the dirt! It's way more fun being dirty!

pcowan

05-30-2009, 06:10 PM

A stock WRX is just fine in RallyX. At the second ever SFR event, a bone stock 02 WRX took overall honors beating out fully prepped cars.

It's best to determine what your goals are either in results or cost:
- I want to show up, have fun and be able to drive my car home worry free.
Skidplate, *maybe* tires... KDWS's are good.

- I have $X to spent and want to be as competetive as possible in Y class.
Skidplate, Seat time(!!!) & tires.

- I want to mop the floor in Y class, I don't care if it cost $X.
Mad traction and mad torque.

In terms of "how to do this". Start by running your car in it's stock form, and analyze where you can drop time and how.

Of course if you're just looking to build a rally car but not actually race it, then I'd recommend a body kit and a giant scoop on the roof and hood.
http://www.body-kit.com/sub_02_wrcspec.html

409industries

05-30-2009, 06:45 PM

It's best to determine what your goals are either in results or cost:
- I want to show up, have fun and be able to drive my car home worry free.
Skidplate, *maybe* tires... KDWS's are good.

- I have $X to spent and want to be as competetive as possible in Y class.
Skidplate, Seat time(!!!) & tires.

- I want to mop the floor in Y class, I don't care if it cost $X.
Mad traction and mad torque.

Quite possibly the best that i've ever seen it broken down before. ;)

You really have to ask yourself which of the above scenarios is true for you. In a coverall blanket statement though, generally i recommend getting a set of mudflaps, a front skid plate and rear diff guard.

If you are looking to compete for a full season perhaps for points, get a second set of stock wheels for your model car and some tires that are appropriate for your class. The gravel will chip your wheels so the less you can spend on wheels the better. Find some already curb rashed ones on nasioc for dirt cheap.

Finally, be prepared to do maintenance on the car. There is no "build then drive endlessly "setup that is going to keep you going without any attention and care. Be ready to frequently change air filters (or clean them if they are washable K&N panels), do oil changes more often, and be ready for the eventual replacement of a clunky tophat, or squeaky wheel bearing.

If you plan right and drive within your means you can have trouble free rallycrosses all year long for many many seasons. :)

anaonbd

05-31-2009, 01:00 AM

Stripping the int. was probably the easiest HP gain for me, as well as putting the royal purple oil in, which gave me a noticeable difference and much quieter and quicker shifting.

Seat time is the biggest separation between really fast, and last. Watching a black WRX at fountain, CO beating a new STi was priceless. I think both the cars had just about the same amount of stockness, but you could tell the driver of the black WRX had way more experience.

Things that I did.. besides ripping the interior out. :lol2:

Napa oil filter $8 (as good as K&N with technology and unbeatable warranty, if you blow your motor as a result of their filter failing, they'll buy you a new motor)

Royal purple oil $.50 more a quart than other synthetics

Clean K&N air filter

LGT-FST

05-31-2009, 07:15 AM

Gutting your car puts you in m4. Playin in m4 in Colorado means a red Evo will be spankin ya. Oh and that red car is pa legal. Hope to see ya in october as the codriver of that red car. Lord of the Rings:eek:

pcowan

05-31-2009, 10:09 PM

Stripping the int. was probably the easiest HP gain for me...

I assume int. = interior? I'd LOVE to see the dyno results from that.
--pete

03rallyrex

05-31-2009, 11:02 PM

Okay i just ordered the primitive front 3/16 skid plate and the differential plate, What size tires would u recommend? 205/55-16 or 205/60-16 with stock 03 wrx wheels, i wanna get the most clearance possible but still have enough room so ill never rub.

Thank alot for everyones help!!

nkx

06-02-2009, 06:33 PM

What size tires would u recommend? 205/55-16 or 205/60-16 with stock 03 wrx wheels, i wanna get the most clearance possible but still have enough room so ill never rub.

the tire size difference wont make a, um... difference. youll get an extra 4/10ths of an inch of clearance with the 60 series tires...:roll:

buy whatevers cheaper.

yarrgh

06-07-2009, 08:42 AM

bigjoshsubyfan

06-07-2009, 09:06 AM

Seat time is huge I beat STi's and WRX's consistantly in my RS when traction becomes an issue having that much power will only benifit you if you know how to use it.

snicker

06-07-2009, 09:49 AM

Seat time! Me and Trastrim run in full prepared classes (even though we're not) so we get the best competition. Have some one watch each run and tell you what mistakes you make. I'd say skid plate and diff guard! Start saving for when you break something. Every one drives differently. The first thing to go for me was the clutch (way to many clutch kicks).

nkx

06-09-2009, 01:55 PM

tire size WILL make a difference. Larger tires effectively lower your gear ratio, making the car slower to accelerate. But they also raise the car a tad, making it safter to traverse rough surfaces, but also raising your CG. There's always a tradeoff.

You're correct in that the difference between a 55 or 60 series tire may not be too noticeable.

just to clarify, i was talking specifically about the difference between the 55 and 60 series tires mentioned, not generalizing. tire sizing is a topic all by itself.

UP2MTNS

06-09-2009, 02:01 PM

I assume int. = interior? I'd LOVE to see the dyno results from that.
--pete

lol

pcowan

06-09-2009, 05:01 PM

Stripping the int. was probably the easiest HP gain for me...

I assume int. = interior? I'd LOVE to see the dyno results from that.
--pete
lol

You know to be fair, HP could also mean Hit Points and I could see a pretty big increase there. I'll save you guys the geek diatribe that explains the relationships between int, str, wis, dex, con, chr and HP.
--pete

p.s. - why doesn't nested quoting work? Damn php forums.

UP2MTNS

06-09-2009, 05:23 PM

You know to be fair, HP could also mean Hit Points and I could see a pretty big increase there. I'll save you guys the geek diatribe that explains the relationships between int, str, wis, dex, con, chr and HP.
--pete

p.s. - why doesn't nested quoting work? Damn php forums.

dexterity FTMFW on the rallyX course.:headbang:

Draco-REX

06-13-2009, 07:23 AM

Name: Draco-REX

Race: Subaru WRX
Class: Prepared AWD

Str: 224awhp
Dex: 201R
Con: 10W-40
Int: 16-bit
Wis: 16 IAM
Cha: 37 (stickers)

Armor: Primitive Racing Plate mail
Equipment: +1 Rear Sway of Rotation, Struts of Adjustability, STI's Springs of Boing, Lightened Seats of Lateral Stability.
Magic Items: Franken-zaust of catlessness, Stage 2 ECU Rituals
Familiar: Trunk Monkey

noisycricket

06-13-2009, 01:42 PM

^ omg lol

LPXLTT

07-27-2009, 10:33 AM

smog7

08-15-2009, 12:08 AM

is it common for people to rallx their daily drivers?

I want to get into it with my celica all trac, but I don't want to break the bank at the same time...

sebhockey

08-15-2009, 12:32 AM

is it common for people to rallx their daily drivers?

I want to get into it with my celica all trac, but I don't want to break the bank at the same time...

Yes, rallyx is safe for a daily driver.

Draco-REX

08-15-2009, 06:11 AM

Most RallyX entrants run their Daily Drivers. Stock class is full of them. You can be as hard on your car as you want. If you find a part of the course is rough, just go slower over it.

However, like most motorsports: "You have to be willing to break it to make it." To be competitive, you'll have to be rough on your car. The good news is that RallyX is very inexpensive to be competitive in.

Start with your DD and go out and have some fun. Take it easy on the car and get some seat time. If you find that you really like RallyX and want to take it further, then pick up a beater for cheap.

rollo

08-15-2009, 10:50 AM

I dunno.. I've done okay, on and off (including a couple of class championships), and never used anything but my daily driver (which I still dd to this day). Sure it's dirty but the only mods (so far) specifically for rallyx were mudflaps and a set of wheels so I could run BFG KDWS on my old stockers. I don't even have a skidplate.

If you're cool with it being dirty and are sensible, you'll be fine. You'll know your own limits (and they'll extend with every event, believe me :lol:). And like Imprezas and Evos, All-Tracs have rally destiny to fulfill.

smog7

08-15-2009, 01:04 PM

thanks for the input guys.

really inspiring me to get out there

noisycricket

08-15-2009, 02:34 PM

My rallycross car is my summer daily driver. My backup rallycross car is my winter daily driver/parts hauler.

Very few people have actual dedicated rallycross cars even in the modified classes. Most people are just having fun with their car and being car guys they are driving nonstock cars that throw them into a higher class.

And some people have dedicated rallycross cars in the stock classes. (Ahem.)

albascoob

08-16-2009, 01:35 PM

repeating what some have already mentioned...

Start off with a sump guard and mudflaps, perhaps a CG lock (I found it a great help), snow tyres if you can find them.
Enter stock class for a season, at least a couple of events although you guys in CA have your own classes/rules because you are your own republic so I have no clue what they are....anyhoo...

Once you want to move up a class (say PA or M4 in SCCAland) add;

- gravel tyres
- good shocks on stock springs (AGX or similar allow for adjustment)
- stiffer or adjustable rear sway bar (helps the car turn in on slower corners)
- reflash the ECU for more power lower down

This is all I ever did with our WRX and it was a highly competitive car in all classes. Like everything in the World, the best thing to spend money on is practice.

Good luck and post photos!

rollo

08-16-2009, 02:19 PM

Enter stock class for a season, at least a couple of events although you guys in CA have your own classes/rules because you are your own republic so I have no clue what they are....anyhoo...

heheh.. we do. And they are simple.

Stock 2 & 4 = stock or very-nearly-stock vehicles - street tyres, no snows
Mod 2 & 4 = modified vehicles - street tyres, snows allowed
Rally 2 & 4 = modified vehicles - any tyres allowed (i.e. use rally rubber)

Three classification methods, six classes in all. There are minor details but that's it in a nutshell. Many people start in Mod due to the mods they already have on the car when they come into the sport.

Check the CG Lock vendor forum here on DI if you want one of those - discount inside!

LGT-FST

08-16-2009, 04:42 PM

Snow tyres are street tyres. Some cars come with them, so if you take them off you are not stock? LOR

noisycricket

08-16-2009, 05:00 PM

I am thinking here that "snows" is shorthand for winter tires, not Mud & Snow rated tires.

Lots cars have M&S tires stock. I don't think any cars have winter tires stock. That would really suck!

rollo

08-16-2009, 08:22 PM

Snow tyres are street tyres. Some cars come with them, so if you take them off you are not stock? LOR

I am thinking here that "snows" is shorthand for winter tires, not Mud & Snow rated tires.

Lots cars have M&S tires stock. I don't think any cars have winter tires stock. That would really suck!

NC is correct. M&S (e.g. BFG KDWS) are legal for stock class, switching to something winter-specific like Blizzaks would bump you to mod.

nkx

08-16-2009, 08:58 PM

NC is correct. M&S (e.g. BFG KDWS) are legal for stock class, switching to something winter-specific like Blizzaks would bump you to mod.

i think you guys in cali have a different rallyx series/rules, so to clarify for anyone else who is curious: in scca rallyx, snowtires are legal for the stock classes. rally tires bump you to prepared.

pomspeed

08-16-2009, 09:41 PM

nkx, nosiycricket, you guys are correct, for everyone else outside of the westcoast group, FRX rules, stock means any street legal tires for stock, regardless of tire labeling. Depending on the surface hardness, the harder surfaces tend to tear up snows quicker. They tend to be softer compound of rubber.

rollo

08-17-2009, 06:42 AM

i think you guys in cali have a different rallyx series/rules, so to clarify for anyone else who is curious: in scca rallyx, snowtires are legal for the stock classes. rally tires bump you to prepared.

Right... that was where this discussion stemmed from, albascoob saying that he didn't know what classes we ran in CA. So that was me explaining that, especially since the OP is in CA.

We should probably have a "rallyx classes in a nutshell" sticky somewhere.

nization

08-17-2009, 02:38 PM

In my observations, daily driven Rallycross cars are more reliable rallycross cars. I've seen more dedicated rallycross cars miss more events than street driven rallycross cars.....

I've missed two local events and borrowed someone else's car twice in the past three years. The two I missed were in favor of 24 Hours of LeMons and the borrowed car was after I got rear-ended on the freeway, unrelated to rallycross. And I've put 60,000 miles on this car in the past two years driving for work!

Rallycross is good for your car in my book!

SoCalBoomer

08-18-2009, 09:47 AM

is it common for people to rallx their daily drivers?

I want to get into it with my celica all trac, but I don't want to break the bank at the same time...

A: Yes, it is safe.
B: Yes, it is common.

Will it wear on your car? Yeah - you're going to go through some things more quickly if you use your daily driver (as opposed to NOT using your daily driver)

You will go through brakes a bit more quickly.
You will likely burn through struts/shocks more quickly (but they should be warranty anyway! :D )
I go through bearings a bit more quickly (although the car has 120K so she's probably due anyway)

Things like that - things you would expect.

Will you be likely to break something? No. But DO expect some extra wear since you're going to be driving fast on bumpy stuff. . . I mean, come on! :shootsself:

Is it worth it? :headbang::headbang::headbang: