DIY Total Underbody Protection [Archive]

UP2MTNS

08-30-2007, 11:34 AM

so, in an attempt to copy the underbody protection similar in the photo below, I've ordered several large sheets of UHMW-PE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polypropelene), which, in other words, is really f'ing hard plastic. I ordered it .25" thick, so it will still be flexible.

Hopefully I'll get it next week and get it all on next weekend and report, but I wanted to throw out a 'teaser' and see if anyone's done anything similar.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8281/underbody28ff.jpg

If this works out, i'm also going to try to fab up a custom, indestructible wheel well liner also. I've destroyed another one of these, and at @$30/each from the dealer, I need to find another solution.

UP2MTNS

08-30-2007, 11:35 AM

btw, notice how low that rear tire is in the wheel well.....jesus, those shocks must have 14 or 16 inches of travel....

BlueREX04

08-30-2007, 11:54 AM

Yea no doubt! that is alot of travel... but then again its designed to get airborn..

UP2MTNS

08-30-2007, 12:03 PM

oh, in case you're wondering WHY UHMW plastic?

from specialstage.com

here is some seat-of-the-pants experience (literally) with the UHMW sheet under Cassidy;'s car. we whacked a toaster-size rock on a 5th-gear section of SS3 at NEFR. I saw it coming (on my side, natch ) and hucked up me hiney as far as it would go in the seat and BAM. Then there was this awful scraping noise that just got worse and worse. Sounded like half the suspension got torn off, but hey the car was still going straight so we just kept going.

turns out one of the UHMW sheets was torn loose and was bent back underneath. It stayed that way for 7 stage mi plus a transit back to service. I figured the sheet would be pretty much half worn off by then...but the crew guys just bent the sheet back up and re-fastened it thru the original holes. NO visible wear---amazing.

worldrallyblue

08-30-2007, 12:11 PM

Looks good. Keep us posted on it when it arrives. Do you think you might have it ready by meet #2??

BlueREX04

08-30-2007, 12:15 PM

That is a great idea and it would also decrease the resistance of air under body (drag)

409industries

08-30-2007, 12:20 PM

I spoke to RallyArmor a few month ago about some development they were doing with a similar material. I emailed them today to see if this was the stuff they were working with...

I love the idea of having plastic panels under there protecting things like the lateral links and transmission from rocks and debris.

Ill be interested to see what you come up with Jon!

Tommy Gun Rally

08-30-2007, 12:21 PM

I talked to George Doganis yesterday at the WRC meet and he uses Low Density Poly and said it also held up perfectly.

Jon, if you'd like help testing whatever you come up with, I'd love to be the rolling testbed! :)

Once you got some good designs down and we tested on stage and off road, it'd make a good kit to sell! Fender liners are a top priority for me.

Tommy Gun Rally

08-30-2007, 12:23 PM

One notable thing to consider however is how this would be set up in relation to the exhaust. The openness of the underbody helps to keep temps in control from the exhaust system. May not be the best for aerodynamics, but you need that cooling down there.

Just a thought.

Drew84

08-30-2007, 12:39 PM

I have thought about doing this. Of course thats when I get a Rally-x car.

BlueREX04

08-30-2007, 01:03 PM

I wonder how much gas it would save for a regular street car?

UP2MTNS

08-30-2007, 01:15 PM

Looks good. Keep us posted on it when it arrives. Do you think you might have it ready by meet #2??

That's the goal. I've been thinking about this for a while now, but when I saw the hole Eli put in his floor board at Gorman, i decided its worth it to start it sooner than later. A little overkill for rallycross....but not for DI meet #2.

I spoke to RallyArmor a few month ago about some development they were doing with a similar material. I emailed them today to see if this was the stuff they were working with...

I love the idea of having plastic panels under there protecting things like the lateral links and transmission from rocks and debris.

Paul Eklund's 'store' also sells a similar Kevlar 'total underbody protection' kit, for something like $500. I got my materials for much less.

One notable thing to consider however is how this would be set up in relation to the exhaust. The openness of the underbody helps to keep temps in control from the exhaust system. May not be the best for aerodynamics, but you need that cooling down there.

Just a thought.

I agree and have thought of this as well.....Also, I didn't want ONE large panel for any one area in case it gets damaged, then you have to replace the whole thing. I've ordered this in manageable sheets that (I think) will do the job, but are also easily (and cheaply) replaceable. So the underbody will be protected by 4 medium sized sheets....more details to come as I work on it next weekend.

I Like It Sideways

08-30-2007, 01:55 PM

I've used UHMW quite a bit at work and can vouch for its toughness. A fairly high impact resistance and great wear resistance make it a good choice. We have UHMW that has put up to 1 year of constant abuse, every day, all day. (16 hours each day to be exact).

I've also seen cardboard used... true story.

Tommy Gun Rally

08-30-2007, 02:27 PM

409industries

08-30-2007, 02:39 PM

Also, consider mounting it so it actually hangs down at rest and flaps backwards and does not cover the links/trailing arms unless the car is in motion or something is pushing the flaps back, like a crown in the road or rocks.

I think it would be difficult to have smaller pieces hanging down to be effective when in motion (like covering a large area) If they were bigger and hanging, wouldnt they be on the ground, and potentially get ripped off in a spin or while reversing?

Heat was the biggest problem i heard with the RA setup, things around the exhaust would get warped or damaged by the exhaust...

WRXCMM

08-30-2007, 02:49 PM

Heat was the biggest problem i heard with the RA setup, things around the exhaust would get warped or damaged by the exhaust...

would you be able to put some kind of vent slots? along the lenght of the exhaust? or leave it exposed (because of heat damage).

UP2MTNS

08-30-2007, 02:58 PM

Heat was the biggest problem i heard with the RA setup, things around the exhaust would get warped or damaged by the exhaust...

one source online has uhmw melting point at 280 degrees F. so should be able to get 'close' to the exhaust (can't touch) w/o melting. we'll see.......

Tommy Gun Rally

08-30-2007, 03:40 PM

Keep in mind other parts in that area don't like to be superheated either. Doganis said that heat reflection from underbody protection actually warped his gas tank!

lorenkb

08-30-2007, 05:13 PM

I'm interested to see what you come up with for the fenderliner. Plans are in the works for a molded kevlar version over here :twisted:

Would it be doable to create active cooling for the exhaust? I'm thinking along the lines of trying to enclose the exhaust in a channel and either duct air in or throw some fans in. It won't be too hard to figure out what CFM of air you needed to keep the whole thing below a certain temp (thermodynamics, how I love/hate you so...)

UP2MTNS

08-30-2007, 06:22 PM

Keep in mind other parts in that area don't like to be superheated either. Doganis said that heat reflection from underbody protection actually warped his gas tank!

I think you're thinking I'm gonna cover the exhaust, which I don't plan on doing. I want to have two panels on each side of the exhaust, but the exhaust itself will be open to the air.

ok, so I guess its not 'total' underbody protection. gimme a break...I'm designing rally parts and I've never been in a real rally!! :angryfinger:

LOL!

sebhockey

08-31-2007, 11:56 AM

Hey Jon let me know when you plan to work on this and maybe I can give ya a hand. I'd be interested in seeing what can be done to make it work and functional.

For exhaust and drive shaft protection, the thing to go with would be heat sheiding. We could come up with some heat sheilding for both sides of a 3" exhaust. You get all the protection and if done right makes it look stock too, so not much hassle from the popo for exhausts cept for muffler :mrgreen: . This would be a great idea for some of our vendors on here to try n make.

Drew84

09-01-2007, 04:07 AM

I think if you have a properly installed exhaust, i.e it doesn't hang wicked low. You sould only need to protect the floorpan. The gas tank has a heat sheild around it. I have an Idea in my head what I want to do. I just need to buy a GC to begin my project.

409industries

09-05-2007, 10:39 AM

JacksonRally

09-05-2007, 10:45 AM

Got an email back from RA. They sourced 1/8” UHMW-PE (polyethylene not polypropelene). One of their concerns is being able to cut the stuff! Sounds like its very strong.

Jon... how you going to cut the pieces? .25" is pretty thick!

I've got a water-jet guy near me in Downey I could call and ask him if they could cut the UHMW-PE. My guess would be yes.

UP2MTNS

09-05-2007, 10:47 AM

Got an email back from RA. They sourced 1/8” UHMW-PE (polyethylene not polypropelene). One of their concerns is being able to cut the stuff! Sounds like its very strong.

Jon... how you going to cut the pieces? .25" is pretty thick!

yeah, polyethylene is what I have too......not sure where I came up with 'propelene.

it comes pre-cut in 2'x4' pieces. I did some measuring before I bought it and I'm hoping I don't have to cut it at all under the mid-section.

the back/gas tank pieces will need to be cut because of the exhaust, but Kragen sells a $10 electric jigsaw, I'm thinking that should work. Can't be much harder than wood.

shipment comes in Thursday....should hopefully get it mounted up on Saturday. Steve, if you want to come by and help, that's cool....but I have new roommate interviews starting at 4pm and my parents get in town that night, so I won't have time to come by the base, even though I'd love to have a lift for this work. oh well.

sebhockey

09-05-2007, 01:37 PM

Got an email back from RA. They sourced 1/8” UHMW-PE (polyethylene not polypropelene). One of their concerns is being able to cut the stuff! Sounds like its very strong.

Jon... how you going to cut the pieces? .25" is pretty thick!

yeah, polyethylene is what I have too......not sure where I came up with 'propelene.

it comes pre-cut in 2'x4' pieces. I did some measuring before I bought it and I'm hoping I don't have to cut it at all under the mid-section.

the back/gas tank pieces will need to be cut because of the exhaust, but Kragen sells a $10 electric jigsaw, I'm thinking that should work. Can't be much harder than wood.

shipment comes in Thursday....should hopefully get it mounted up on Saturday. Steve, if you want to come by and help, that's cool....but I have new roommate interviews starting at 4pm and my parents get in town that night, so I won't have time to come by the base, even though I'd love to have a lift for this work. oh well.

It'd be cool, but I'll be in Oregon at Paul Eklund's school this weekend.

UP2MTNS

09-05-2007, 02:01 PM

oh, that's right! have fun.

when you're there, be sure to introduce yourself to Steve Carper. (or get him as your instructor). He's the guy that I'm doing the Alcan5000 race with in February. He's got a white evo.

409industries

09-05-2007, 03:19 PM

Im sure a sawzall with a whole bunch of blades could handle it!

Tommy Gun Rally

09-05-2007, 05:13 PM

Band saw FTW. This is basically cutting through a cutting board.

UP2MTNS

09-06-2007, 07:39 AM

Band saw FTW. This is basically cutting through a cutting board.

I wish I had room for one.

off topic, but my dad has a great 2 car garage with pretty much an entire shop. He ALSO has, sitting just outside the garage, a 91 eagle talon (fwd), which needs some work, but is basically in pretty good condition. He doesn't drive it anymore, and I'm DYING to rally that thing. too bad its in Vermont.

lorenkb

09-06-2007, 08:39 AM

Band saw FTW. This is basically cutting through a cutting board.

I wish I had room for one.

Pick up one of the table-top bandsaws (Home Depot has the Ryobi 9"). Well worth the money when it comes to having to cut anything.

UP2MTNS

09-07-2007, 10:03 PM

UHMW came into day!!! got the driver's side done......not too bad to cut with a cheap electric jigsaw from Kragen. Mounted up fairly easily....I'm a little concerned on how well the bolts will hold up under a hard hit (sheet metal screws bolted into the floor panels), but it seems pretty tough so far.

pics to come soon....

409industries

09-07-2007, 10:29 PM

looking forward to seeing the pics!

UP2MTNS

09-09-2007, 04:41 PM

Before I post pics, with all the 'disclaimers' going around on the forum (very appropriate, I must add), I figure I should post my own disclaimer on this modification since its not very common and I don't want anyone blaming me for putting a screw through their gas tank....

WARNING!!!!

This vehicle modification is not for the faint of heart! Do not continue reading if you any problems with....

Drilling....specifically, drilling holes in the bottom of your car.
If you have a problem with drilling holes in the bottom of your car, you shouldn't do this mod.....and if you shouldn't do this mod, well, you shouldn't be doing any serious driving in the dirt....because that's what this is for...total protection while 'riding dirty'. If you're not driving in the dirt....why are you on this website?

2nd.....you need to be able to work power tools, and can't be a wuss about it. Specifically, you need to know how to work a power drill (see above). Also, you need to be able to work a powered cutting device, such as a jigsaw (what I used), saws all, band saw (ftw!), or I think a grinder (with a cutting blade) might work. If you're worried about cutting off a digit, do not continue! BUT, if you're not willing to sacrifice a digit or two for your car....why should your car sacrifice for you in the dirt? Broken endlinks....snapped axles, bent sway bars are all part of getting dirty......come on....eye for an eye here!

3rd and last, make sure you ALWAYS use jackstands, you'll need 4 for this mod. You can't use a lift for this.....I didn't get to use a lift for this, so you don't either. If you do, its considered cheating and it won't protect as well as the ones done by crawling around on your back, getting dirty, underneath our cars!

peace out.

BlackParis

09-09-2007, 05:56 PM

3rd and last, make sure you ALWAYS use jackstands, you'll need 4 for this mod. You can't use a lift for this.....I didn't get to use a lift for this, so you don't either. If you do, its considered cheating and it won't protect as well as the ones done by crawling around on your back, getting dirty, underneath our cars!

peace out.

Rofls.. The blood is a secret ingredient, to making a tough underbody :-D

lorenkb

09-09-2007, 07:01 PM

I might add that you get extra bonus points for using an angle grinder to cut stuff. Angle grinder = certain carnage. I love those things! As far as the lift goes... is it still considered cheating if you roll around on the floor before you start working? I mean, as long as you get dirty all is fair right?

Looking forward to pictures!

UP2MTNS

09-09-2007, 09:07 PM

so here they are, these are intended at 'before' and 'after' shots....no directions, measurements, blueprints, or 'how to' directions yet, I'm still figuring out how I want to market/sell all this, LOL.

so, before, front driver's side...just under the driver's seat:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_81_full.jpg

AFTER!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_82_full.jpg

passenger side rear (gas tank and laterlinks) before:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_78_full.jpg

AFTER!
Installed....rear control arm, endlinks, sway bar, gas tank, and axles protected!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_79_full.jpg
tightened up with some wire ties:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_80_full.jpg
close-up.....
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_84_full.jpg

from the rear w/all 4 panels on w/the exhaust exposed for ventilation:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_87_full.jpg

from the front, all 4 panels:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_85_full.jpg

close-up, front passenger side...notice how close that is to the exhaust (less than 1"), so far, no melting...
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_86_full.jpg

front driver side....that leading edge had to be cable tied down, it started flapping against the car at +70mph:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_88_full.jpg

all 4 panels, little bit closer:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_89_full.jpg

UP2MTNS

09-09-2007, 09:27 PM

so, fwiw...the .25" UHMW-PE is pretty bullet proof...overall, I'm REALLY happy with cost vs level of protection......I tried breaking this stuff and I just couldn't do it. I broke 2 jigsaw blades cutting it (but I think part of that was the cheap-ass jigsaw I was using).

It definitely adds some weight...about 20lbs, but I think its worth it.

So my question to the group is.......what should I do with this design? I haven't seen much out there for anything like this, is it worth it to create a formal 'blueprint' and try to sell this as a DIY kit which would include cut-out templates and detailed instructions?

while I'm not on here to make a buck, as I plan next year's racing events/budget....it'd be nice to have some extra cash...

sebhockey

09-10-2007, 12:00 AM

UP2MTNS

09-10-2007, 07:57 AM

Hey Jon, I might suggest talking to Paul Eklund and some of his other instructors before trying to market and complete this as a sellable kit. They all already use underbody protection on their cars. so you could prolly learn a lot from them.

well, they all probably have their own custom designs....or use Paul's design that he sells. the only real questionable part of the design are the mounting points, and if they'll hold up under a hard hit. But from everything I've read, most folks are just putting bolts through floor boards as well.

lorenkb

09-10-2007, 08:10 AM

I think a lot of testing is needed to find the weak spots. After it's proven then I'd say it would be worth creating a short-kit (or even a full DIY kit)

I would be worried about that leading edge snagging on something and tearing the bolts out of the floorpan. Even hitting a rock head on and creating a shear load might be enough to pull that bolt out. Is there any way you can roll/bend that front edge up to avoid this? Same thing goes for the front edge of the rear panels. That, and replace those zip-ties with some kevlar thread.

Looking good to start with though 8)

UP2MTNS

09-10-2007, 08:21 AM

I would be worried about that leading edge snagging on something and tearing the bolts out of the floorpan. Even hitting a rock head on and creating a shear load might be enough to pull that bolt out. Is there any way you can roll/bend that front edge up to avoid this? Same thing goes for the front edge of the rear panels. That, and replace those zip-ties with some kevlar thread.

Looking good to start with though 8)

That's the leading edge that was flapping at high speeds, its been zip-tied up and no more issue. While the leading edge does look exposed, its pretty tucked away underneath everything. Nothing could hit it head on, as my cusco 'H-brace' bar would tag it first. The H-brace bar is a good 2 inches below the uhmw. Also, that same edge is right under the front wheel.....so for something to hit that edge, well, you'd have to run into a boulder.

Here's a better pic of what it all looks like relative to front tires, etc.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_91_full.jpg

This is good feedback though....keep the 'design' questions coming.

409industries

09-10-2007, 09:20 AM

I might add that you get extra bonus points for using an angle grinder to cut stuff. Angle grinder = certain carnage.

Then you must love Angle Grinder Man!

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39855000/jpg/_39855143_agmbody.jpg

Nice pics Jon. That material is strong as hell. It seems that on the lateral links, the zip ties would eventually break from wear and tear, loren had suggested kevlar straps... is there any chance that these would cause damage to the lateral link? Its probably not under much stress because the bulk of the protection piece is held up by the bolts.

I agree that i dont think Eklund would want much to do with this product if he is already selling his own! It might be competition for him! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

UP2MTNS

09-10-2007, 09:53 AM

Nice pics Jon. That material is strong as hell. It seems that on the lateral links, the zip ties would eventually break from wear and tear, loren had suggested kevlar straps... is there any chance that these would cause damage to the lateral link? Its probably not under much stress because the bulk of the protection piece is held up by the bolts.

Those were the strongest zip ties I had at the time, I'd like to put beefier ones on. It doesn't pull on the lateral link at all, its really just tucking it up tighter so it doesn't flap. If it gets hit, it'll push up, but nothing is going to pull down on it. I think kevlar might be a little overkill for the back end. That one front edge....Kevlar would be a good option.

No matter how well its bolted in, I think there's always a chance something will pop out. Maybe loose kevlar ties all the way around would be a good 'back up'. that way, if something does get yanked out, at least it won't be flopping everywhere, or worse, dragged under a wheel, or left out on a stage somewhere.

good ideas...keep them coming......

Tommy Gun Rally

09-10-2007, 09:53 AM

BONER. Sign me up. Let's talk at the Gorman meet about this!!!

Eli

UP2MTNS

09-10-2007, 10:13 AM

BONER. Sign me up. Let's talk at the Gorman meet about this!!!

Eli

haha, you said 'boner'. will do.....you can literally take a bfh to my underside now with no effect :twisted:

btw, Eli, you should check out L&E quick ratio steering column over in the vendor section. I'll let you drive my car at Gorman, its a whole new world.

Blix666

09-10-2007, 11:25 AM

i would just replace those zip-ties with hose clamps...they'll last much longer, they're removable, and adjustable.

this looks wicked pissa btw

UP2MTNS

09-10-2007, 12:11 PM

i would just replace those zip-ties with hose clamps...they'll last much longer, they're removable, and adjustable.

this looks wicked pissa btw

gotta love the east coast feedback! LOL....if I ever actually sell these, the advertising will look something like this...

"These boner under body plates offer the best in wicked pissa protection!!"

I don't want the metal hose clamps to scratch my pink paint now that its all protected!

Tommy Gun Rally

09-10-2007, 12:46 PM

I don't want the metal hose clamps to scratch my pink paint now that its all protected!

gay quote of the year!

haha

:tongue:

lorenkb

09-10-2007, 01:14 PM

You can get 100ft of Kevlar yarn for 13 bucks... beats the hell out of zip ties any day! If you need yet another time consuming hobby you could buy a 400 yard spool of kevlar thread for 18 bucks and make your own yarn! (this may give gilbrock a bit of a worry though...)

-So uh, Jon, whatcha doing there?
-Oh nothing, just knitting up something for the suby...
*deflty moves knitting needles back and forth*
-Oh... OK...

As far as the edges go, what about the rear panels? Are you keeping the front and rear seperate for ease of construction/repair, or could you stitch the front and rear together (perhaps using some of your newly made kevalr yarn!). Only reason I ask is because you can see that the front edge of the rear panel hangs down on the corner. It may not be a problem until you hit a boulder, but that's what the underbody protection is supposed to protect against right? What about landing a small jump or hitting a deep rut at speed? If stuff is scraping then there is the possibility of something catching the front edge of the panels. I say its worth making sure that the edges aren't going to catch instead of finding out hte hard way.

Oh yeah, are we driving your car or mine at the TSD? Quick steering, coilovers, uber underbody protection... I may be tempted to "borrow" your car!

UP2MTNS

09-10-2007, 01:52 PM

As far as the edges go, what about the rear panels? Are you keeping the front and rear seperate for ease of construction/repair, or could you stitch the front and rear together (perhaps using some of your newly made kevalr yarn!). Only reason I ask is because you can see that the front edge of the rear panel hangs down on the corner. It may not be a problem until you hit a boulder, but that's what the underbody protection is supposed to protect against right? What about landing a small jump or hitting a deep rut at speed? If stuff is scraping then there is the possibility of something catching the front edge of the panels. I say its worth making sure that the edges aren't going to catch instead of finding out hte hard way.

Oh yeah, are we driving your car or mine at the TSD? Quick steering, coilovers, uber underbody protection... I may be tempted to "borrow" your car!

You can drive my car.....so start feeling special!!

The front edge of the rear panels are flush against the floor, and on one side they actually overlap so you can't catch the edge. On the other side, there's a little gap...so that's something I'd have to fix....right now, I'm just leaving it as-is. But its definitely something I need to figure out for Version 2.0 of the design.

-So uh, Jon, whatcha doing there?
-Oh nothing, just knitting up something for the suby...
*deflty moves knitting needles back and forth*
-Oh... OK...

Does Kevlar yarn come in STI pink?

Blix666

09-10-2007, 02:00 PM

I don't want the metal hose clamps to scratch my pink paint now that its all protected!

:shock:

L and E Fab.com

09-10-2007, 02:09 PM

i would just replace those zip-ties with hose clamps...they'll last much longer, they're removable, and adjustable.

this looks wicked pissa btw

I run the hose clamps on my under guard to keep them from breaking.

You are going to loose the zip ties on the second corner.

I have ripped the metal hose clamps off.

UP2MTNS

09-10-2007, 02:48 PM

I run the hose clamps on my under guard to keep them from breaking.

.

so Erik, what material do you use? I assume your own design? How does this match up to what you're running with?

L and E Fab.com

09-10-2007, 04:12 PM

I will take pictures next time I am where I store the rally car. and put them on.

The main difference is I run aluminum gas take skid plates. So the lateral link guards come off the back of those skid plates. I also run a separate piece pop riveted to the trailing arm. I found issues trying to cover the lateral links and trailing arm with one piece of material. You are running much thicker material then I am so you might have better luck covering both with one peice.

lorenkb

09-10-2007, 09:08 PM

Does Kevlar yarn come in STI pink?

This can be arranged :P

fattie92

09-10-2007, 09:48 PM

Damit... I have 4 pages to read...

Cliffs anyone??

I was thinking about doing this myself, but didnt think it would be all that worth it for a daily driver that gets rallyXed once a month. What I really want to make, and I think I am gonna do it, is the underbody mud flap... Now that thing is badass!

BTW, keep up the good work!

SIDE NOTE>.....
You say you are getting it ready for stage rally's? RallyAmerica? Just curious on what organization you planned on racing with... I thought you had to start with a FWD NA car and work your way up??

subyspawn

09-11-2007, 06:23 AM

SIDE NOTE>.....
You say you are getting it ready for stage rally's? RallyAmerica? Just curious on what organization you planned on racing with... I thought you had to start with a FWD NA car and work your way up??

only if you are running RA. NASA you can start with pretty much whatever you want.

Tommy Gun Rally

09-11-2007, 09:10 AM

UP2MTNS

09-11-2007, 09:17 AM

L and E Fab.com

09-11-2007, 09:25 AM

Actually you can start in either. All you have to do to run a 4WD car in R/A is write JB Niday a letter and tell him your situation. I would think any rally school and any amount of rallycrossing would suffice a waiver.

I have heard from a few people that he has never denied an appeal letter like this.

Eli

I would also recommend spending the $3000+ for a couple days at Tim O'neils.

It is cheaper then writing your car off at the first event.

L and E Fab.com

09-11-2007, 09:26 AM

plus, when I run the Alcan5000 this year, its worth 18 coefficient points :FU:

What is this???

I am too lazy to search.

sebhockey

09-11-2007, 02:23 PM

plus, when I run the Alcan5000 this year, its worth 18 coefficient points :FU:

What is this???

I am too lazy to search.

TSD though canada

UP2MTNS

09-11-2007, 02:57 PM

plus, when I run the Alcan5000 this year, its worth 18 coefficient points :FU:

What is this???

I am too lazy to search.

www.alcan5000.com

Starts mid february in Seattle.....goes up through Canada all the way to the Beaufort Sea and comes back down.

10 days of TSD competition, including ice slaloms......5,000 miles. Survival gear.....-30 degree temps.....piece of cake. :)

I'm co-driving though, so I don't get to have nearly as much fun, but hopefully on some slaloms, and maybe a few stages. Its a friend's EVO8.

Tommy Gun Rally

09-11-2007, 03:02 PM

I would also recommend spending the $3000+ for a couple days at Tim O'neils.

It is cheaper then writing your car off at the first event.

Wait, was this directed at me?

:FU:

:tongue:

UP2MTNS

09-11-2007, 03:06 PM

I would also recommend spending the $3000+ for a couple days at Tim O'neils.

It is cheaper then writing your car off at the first event.

Wait, was this directed at me?

:FU:

:tongue:

LOL

you went out in style, so you don't count. Pirouettes in a car (and catching it all on video) is the things legends are made of. Someday, I'll be able to say, "I wrenched on Eli Gilbert's rally car back when he was just a rookie!"

don't forget the little people, Eli....don't forget the little people. :waving:

409industries

09-11-2007, 04:34 PM

ohh and it was spectacular Eli. Any exposure is good exposure right???

Jon. Im curious about the 18 coefficients. Thats a LOT for one event. Given that the alcan5000 is a huge enduro of an event, but how does that factor into driving in RA or NASA events? Do the coefficients as a you being a co-driver / navigator transfer over directly as a driver?

On a side note, i have some UHMW-PE sourced and it should be on its way soon! :) not a big sheet though so i might just focus on the lateral links and gas tank.

UP2MTNS

09-11-2007, 06:41 PM

Jon. Im curious about the 18 coefficients. Thats a LOT for one event. Given that the alcan5000 is a huge enduro of an event, but how does that factor into driving in RA or NASA events? Do the coefficients as a you being a co-driver / navigator transfer over directly as a driver?

good question on the co-driver to driver transfer, I dunno.....Eli? Erik? Does RA/NASA separate driver/co-driver coefficients?

In terms of the # of points for one event....I think its a small amount. Gorman was what.....2 points? and how many miles? 50? 60? (stage miles).

We're doing 400-600 miles a day...10 days in a row...In extreme survival conditions....we're carrying so much crap, my equipment list looks like a camping store/autoshop inventory.

hmmmm, might be time to start a new thread on this...

Tommy Gun Rally

09-12-2007, 09:09 AM

That's a good idea. The Alcan is a huge undertaking and I can't wait to hear your stories. I'm sure you've talked to Eklund too (and Kayla), as they've done it at least once that I know about.

The coefficients, like I said, are no big deal. The fact you have rallycrossed a season is probably more than enough experience that RA is looking for. Remember, they want entrants at their rallies!

Besides, run NASA events. Cheaper, more fun, but a little less media etc.
Eli

Davis10

11-08-2007, 09:35 PM

I did this on my car A little while back I'll post up a few pic's as soon as I get the chance to take them.

However I used regular HDPE since it is cheaper and Haven't done the underfoot panels yet but I have extra material so I may do them soon.

409industries

12-28-2007, 02:42 PM

I did this on my car A little while back I'll post up a few pic's as soon as I get the chance to take them.

Pics???

Topic revisited.

I have a sheet of HDPE in the office that is just sitting around taking up a space, i want to cut it up and experiment with lateral link and front foot protection. Ill see what i can come up with. So far metal hose clamps are what i think should be used for the free hanging parts.

RS-ti_Andy

12-28-2007, 03:17 PM

409industries

12-28-2007, 03:42 PM

sooo back on subject.. you know how the lotus elise and the new skyline have carbon fiber or alluminum underbodies? i think we should just do that cause then not only are u getting protection but aero dynamics! i mean yes its more expenive but its a upgrade and protection in one!

Most people interested in this thread are in it for the budget aspect. Anyone can go out and buy a kevlar underbody protection kit and get everything done... it just cost a grip.

sebhockey

12-28-2007, 04:10 PM

Not to mention we want durability. Those carbon fiber underbodies can't take the punishment rally dishes out. One hit and it breaks into pieces.

RS-ti_Andy

12-28-2007, 04:21 PM

yeah thats why i was thinking alluminum but yeah totally the cheaper the better

wolfman79

12-28-2007, 05:33 PM

And my shopping list grows longer...again.

Guess we need to get the OBS up on a lift and get some templates. Gonna have to wait till I get back from AIT, don't have enough time before I leave.

MConte05

02-01-2008, 04:28 PM

Anything further on this?

UP2MTNS

02-07-2008, 10:08 PM

Anything further on this?

I made a custom wheel well out of the same material, little bit thinner though, looks/works great.

For the underbody, I need to find some better mounting points (or better hardware?) I've had a few bolts pop out after rallyX events. Needs to be more stable for stage rally.

In retrospect, I'm thinking 3/16" would work fine...a bit lighter, easier to work with, and a bit cheaper.

Or maybe 1/4" under the feet.....3/16th for the back half of the car.

Dynapar

02-13-2008, 11:14 AM

This is a sweet! where can you get this material from? I would like to fab up some extra protection for the gas tank and axles as I think those are vulnerable areas on my GC. Also I need new fender liners as my stock ones dont fit due to having rolled the fenders.

Dynapar

02-13-2008, 11:27 AM

You can't use a lift for this.....I didn't get to use a lift for this, so you don't either. If you do, its considered cheating and it won't protect as well as the ones done by crawling around on your back, getting dirty, underneath our cars.

This is the best thing I have read all day! So funny and so true.

UP2MTNS

02-13-2008, 12:02 PM

Dynapar

02-14-2008, 08:19 AM

Thanks

Davis10

02-28-2008, 09:26 PM

I said I would contribute some pics a while ago so here you go..

They are pretty bad pics since I took them at night, but the main thing to notice thats new is how I used a 'angle iron' shaped piece of aluminum to attach the inside on my panels to my diff guard. I only used 1/8" HDPE too probably should have gone bigger but they have worked great so far only thing that been broken is a couple zip ties. I also haven't done underfloor panels yet.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1780/img8402fk7.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9153/img8395zt8.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/7035/img8404ma6.jpg

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9996/img8405bc2.jpg

Here you can't really see the panels but notice my primitive racing skid plate and huge STi mudflaps :twisted:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2774/img8393hu5.jpg

Also my DIY flocked dash as a bonus complete w/ v4 STi cluster. :headbang:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2366/img8409cj0.jpg

409industries

02-28-2008, 11:28 PM

Looks like it does the trick! Those look nice man. I'm still a ways off from making mine...

I Like It Sideways

02-29-2008, 06:44 AM

Davis10, nice work on the dash. No more glare!

I love the gauge cluster. Very nice.

Davis10

02-29-2008, 09:34 AM

Don't want to get too offtopic but here is the site with the flocking stuff I used if anyone is interested.

http://www.donjer.com/suedetex/product.htm

Pretty good for the price I used the "miniflocker".

Draco-REX

03-02-2008, 07:19 PM

I don't know if it is the same with the GCs, but the GD dashboards appear to be polarized. If you wear polarized sunglasses the dash looks like it's matte and there's no glare on the windshield. At first I thought it was a quirk of my STI's dash, but the bugeye's dash does the same thing. I definately reccomend picking up some polarized glasses before doing anything permanent to your dash.

...though an alcantara/matte dash is kinda cool. :D

Is Rally Bling still Bling if it doesn't shine? :crazy:

Davis10

03-02-2008, 10:43 PM

Umm... I think its your glasses that are polarized not your dash...

Polarized Glasses = No glare

FastWagon

03-03-2008, 11:01 AM

I am def. going to fab me up some well liners thats for DAMN sure

rte7x9

03-03-2008, 11:19 AM

It was mentioned earlier that rocks might come up and take the leading edges, seems to me like a nice skidplate followed by some of this magical material would be awesome, just use the same rear mounting hardware you do for the plate and slip the plastic in before the skidplate.

Davis10

03-03-2008, 02:35 PM

UP2MTNS

03-03-2008, 02:58 PM

Does anyone have pictures of fender liners they made. What thickness plastic did you use?

^^^^ I tucked my back ones up into the little divot in the back of the passenger side foot well to avoid this. That along with 3 bolts and huge fender washers I think will do the trick, Ive definitly dragged them over stuff. I also used neoprene washers in between the floor and plastic to avoid rusting and leakage. The setup you described would be killer though.

hmmm, I thought I posted pics of my wheel well liner design.....I guess it was another thread. oh well......still on topic, here they are. I used the same uhmw-pe material, but 3/16" (not 1/4). I started with a custom 2x5' sheet.

before: (no wheel well)
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_94_full.jpg

after about an hour of measuring, cutting, measuring some more:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_95_full.jpg
1" sheet metal screws and big washers. I used one here....one behind the wheel, and then used the same mounting points as the mudflaps (on the rear ouside edge) and the same mounting point as the sti chin splitters (on the front outside edge).
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_96_full.jpg (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_96_full.jpg)

and then some 3m 'rubberized' spray paint to make it a little bit tougher and prettier.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2306000-2306999/2306310_98_full.jpg

Draco-REX

03-03-2008, 08:52 PM

Umm... I think its your glasses that are polarized not your dash...

Polarized Glasses = No glare
I know my glasses are polarized. But they would do nothing if the light reflected by the dash was not polarized. If the light scattered equally, the polarized lenses would reduce the light normally. But since the dash has that peculiar property, the polarized lenses make the dash look and act as if it were matte. It's worth checking out if you haven't already.

UP2MTNS

03-06-2008, 10:23 AM

you can get glare off of almost any flat surface that reflects....it does not require a 'Polarized' surface.

yes, 'glare' is reflected light that has polarized properties (and so
glasses then need to be polarized opposite to reduce that glare) but glare is dependant on a direct light source and angle of reflection. (ie my hood scoop is not polarized....but it gives off wicked glare on a sunny day)

Draco-REX

03-06-2008, 02:00 PM

I think you may have misunderstood me. I'm not saying there is or isn't glare off the stock dash. I'm sure anyone sitting in the car on a sunny day can agree that there's plenty of glare. All I'm saying is that polarized sunglasses nearly eliminate it, to the point where the dash no longer looks shiny, but infact, matte.

My original point that has gotten out of hand here is: I reccomend just picking up some polarized sunglasses and giving that a try before spending a ton of money on a custom matte (alcantara, suede, etc) dash. That's all :). Just trying to save someone a few $$ maybe.

I wanted a dash like that, but after driving with my sunglasses, I've found that I have no need of one. My dash, to all intents and purposes, is already matte and without glare since I'll be wearing my sunglasses when it is sunny anyways.

UP2MTNS

03-06-2008, 05:32 PM

My original point that has gotten out of hand here is:

something got out of hand on the internet??? stfu!! :lol2:

I wear my polarized sunglasses like prescription glasses....I have really light eyes and Cali sun practically blinds me. but I always get amber or 'light' sunglasses because even when its overcast, its still be very bright, so I wear my sunglasses at night so I can see...I mean, when its cloudy too :)

this is off topic......ummmm.....my wheel well liners won't cause any glare when driving!! :mrgreen:

Davis10

03-06-2008, 05:44 PM

I guess I forgot to mention that I flocked the dash myself for under 50$, which is of course less them your typical pair of $120 smith sunglasses. Its nice at night too you don't get glare from lights off oncoming cars. Although its not as nice as a professionally flocked dash IMO, and I love my polarized sunglasses to they're great. ;)

On the other hand those liners look really nice have you had any issues with them rubbing and such? And it looks like you just used self tapping metal screws to attach them along with the mudflap bolts right?

Draco-REX

03-06-2008, 07:15 PM

RIGHT! Underbody protection...

I don't suppose you still have patterns for your fender liners? ANd maybe send me a copy? ;)

StanBo

03-08-2008, 12:42 PM

RIGHT! Underbody protection...

I don't suppose you still have patterns for your fender liners? ANd maybe send me a copy? ;)

First off awesome mods!

I would kick you a couple bucks for the patterns for the liners. Put the money towards your next protection project.

UP2MTNS

03-09-2008, 03:57 PM

StanBo

03-09-2008, 05:34 PM

I've only done the right side, and I didn't 'copy' the pattern......but I want to for my left side, so PM and when I get it done, I'll figure out a way to get the pattern to you.

btw, this is for an 04 wrx....not sure if will work for 02-03's or 06's and up. just fyi.

Yeah I was thinking that. I guess when the time comes I will just get the plastic and start by basing it off the stock part. Then leave meat for extensions.

the_wrath_of_Khan

03-19-2008, 07:38 PM

Looks awesome.

donutking

03-20-2008, 07:26 AM

looking nice.... I may go to the may school for paul ill introduce myself to steve for sure!

UP2MTNS

03-25-2008, 01:55 PM

StanBo

03-26-2008, 05:40 PM

update....one side is coming off....having issues with my original mounting points....screws are popping out. If this is happening at rallyX events, they won't last in a stage rally....need to find some bullet proof points to bolt these things to.....

will update soon...

Any chance of maybe hitting a screwpoint that is threaded? Or maybe a flatspot where you can drill/weld a nut in to then screw to?

yee-buddy

04-21-2010, 10:48 AM

pictures no worky :(

UP2MTNS

04-21-2010, 11:00 AM

pictures no worky :(

I'll try and get new ones up soon. I ended up doing weld-nuts along the under body of the car....much easier to deal with than sheet metal screws and much more solid.

yee-buddy

04-21-2010, 11:22 AM

and the plastic flexes with the control arms like in the first pic? or is there enough excess?

UP2MTNS

04-21-2010, 04:36 PM

and the plastic flexes with the control arms like in the first pic? or is there enough excess?

yes....1/4 is pretty stiff to bend by hand, but the weight of the car is no issue.

what do you mean by enough excess? I use 4 2'x4' sheets and that's plenty to cover from the transmission to the very back and past the lateral links (and yes, cover the trailing arm)

yee-buddy

04-21-2010, 08:01 PM

by excess i meant that if the plastic was not capable of flexing sufficiently that there would be a bit of open space. that is, with more plastic than required, there would be less stress and it would not have to stretch as much.

But yes, it sounds as though it flexes fine but your only trouble is mounting... heavier bolts?

UP2MTNS

04-21-2010, 08:41 PM

yeah, with the weld nuts, I'm using M8 fasteners....although, they still get sheared off every now and then.

yee-buddy

04-21-2010, 08:59 PM

Curious to see (forgive me if this has been asked or mentioned prior) but what was the overall cost and how has it held up to abuse?

yee-buddy

04-21-2010, 08:59 PM

besides bolts being ripped out of course.

LaughingLarry

09-19-2011, 02:34 PM

Hey, thanks to all of you for sharing the stories of underbody protection. I ran across this link, and decided to use your info to coat the bottom of my ride. I did some searching and contacted the sources you mentioned. The site: www.indplastic.com (http://www.indplastic.com) forwards to what looks like a new site: www.iplasticsupply.com (http://www.iplasticsupply.com) - anyway, they had the stuff, called UHMW and they had it in a white-ish and black and as a plus they were helpful. I bought the black, and bolted it on. It has been working great - even when bashed by rocks and stuff. Thanks again to all that posted. Great stories and funny responses.
Larry